I see we have been talking about it on timed threads but was hoping some of you could point out some tips you have found useful (Rather than just putting up links for rowing technique)
0
50 replies to this topic
#2
-
- Members
- 1,799 posts
Member
Posted 09 August 2006 - 11:08 PM
Kinda hard to explain via text but ill try...
Because there is no official start/finish in the rowing movement, your best bet is to start sitting on the backstop (legs extended) with the handle drawn in to about your third rib up.
-You then extend your arms out, the drag in the chain should pull them out as well and with a straight back and straight, relaxed arms, start to stretch out (as if doing a hamstring type stretch) until your hands are past your knees. Getting this "length" off the backstop is vital to the rest of the stroke, as a long stoke is far more powerful.
- Holding the position of your back and arms (leaning forward, arms extended), slowly come up the slide, until you get to maximum length at the "catch" (start of the stroke). The movement from the backstop up the slide is your recovery time, so try not to rush back up the slide to take your next stroke.
- Now you are at the catch, pretty much do everything in reverse to how you came from the back. That is, drive your legs, then swing your back, then draw your arms in. your legs are the primary muscle group in the rowing stroke, try not to be too tense in the arms and just imagine hanging off the handle like you would from a tree - rather than gripping the handle, as this wastes energy in the arms and generally weakens your rowing stroke.
The aim is to incorporate the above into one, fluent movement. But the golden rule in rowing is the power comes from the legs. Try to accelerate the legs, that is imagine a force curve going from zero effort to 100 percent through the stroke. So as you first drive your legs, try to squeeze off the front of the slide, and then build the power in your legs from then, til you are at full acceleration at the back of the slide.
Hope this helps
Because there is no official start/finish in the rowing movement, your best bet is to start sitting on the backstop (legs extended) with the handle drawn in to about your third rib up.
-You then extend your arms out, the drag in the chain should pull them out as well and with a straight back and straight, relaxed arms, start to stretch out (as if doing a hamstring type stretch) until your hands are past your knees. Getting this "length" off the backstop is vital to the rest of the stroke, as a long stoke is far more powerful.
- Holding the position of your back and arms (leaning forward, arms extended), slowly come up the slide, until you get to maximum length at the "catch" (start of the stroke). The movement from the backstop up the slide is your recovery time, so try not to rush back up the slide to take your next stroke.
- Now you are at the catch, pretty much do everything in reverse to how you came from the back. That is, drive your legs, then swing your back, then draw your arms in. your legs are the primary muscle group in the rowing stroke, try not to be too tense in the arms and just imagine hanging off the handle like you would from a tree - rather than gripping the handle, as this wastes energy in the arms and generally weakens your rowing stroke.
The aim is to incorporate the above into one, fluent movement. But the golden rule in rowing is the power comes from the legs. Try to accelerate the legs, that is imagine a force curve going from zero effort to 100 percent through the stroke. So as you first drive your legs, try to squeeze off the front of the slide, and then build the power in your legs from then, til you are at full acceleration at the back of the slide.
Hope this helps
Its a matter of faith...
#3
-
- Members
- 22,502 posts
Senior Member
Posted 09 August 2006 - 11:17 PM
Yes Thanks, it does help actually. I think from that I'm doing it pretty much right but may be using my arms a bit too much.
I row with my thumbs on top of the handle rather than below. Is that right or wrong?
I row with my thumbs on top of the handle rather than below. Is that right or wrong?
WAIKATO
Dona Nobis Pacem
Dona Nobis Pacem
#4
-
- Members
- 1,799 posts
Member
Posted 09 August 2006 - 11:28 PM
you should have them below the handle but only loosely attached to it. The same grip of hanging from a chin up bar would be the best analogy i spose.
Another thing to try to check you are driving with your legs is to get someone to stand at the front end of the rowing machine (over the fan) and when you come out to full stretch at the catch, stop and let them hold the handle in between your hand grip. Then get them to hold it there while you start a stroke. If you are driving with your legs, your ass should lift off the seat, if you are pulling with your arms, you will pull them back over the fan!
Another thing to try to check you are driving with your legs is to get someone to stand at the front end of the rowing machine (over the fan) and when you come out to full stretch at the catch, stop and let them hold the handle in between your hand grip. Then get them to hold it there while you start a stroke. If you are driving with your legs, your ass should lift off the seat, if you are pulling with your arms, you will pull them back over the fan!
Its a matter of faith...
#5
-
- Administrators
-
- 54,531 posts
Senior Member
Posted 10 August 2006 - 09:23 AM
that sounds pretty good warlord - power in the legs is the key, arms htere for hanging onto the handle!! Also read somewhere, and have observed, and have noted by doing - keep the chain on the horizontal - don't waste energy jhumping that up and down and all over the palce - shoud be out, in, out in sort of thing, no movement up or down - think youn are just part of a machine.
In saying that, when I did that 500 the other day, last 200 would hvae been a treat to see on how not to row I expect!!
my grip, on thumb under, one thumb over usually, just more comfortable that way - think a few thumb sprains / dislocations have caused that!!
is good to watch at the gym other rowers too, and you can soon pick up correct technique etc.
In saying that, when I did that 500 the other day, last 200 would hvae been a treat to see on how not to row I expect!!
my grip, on thumb under, one thumb over usually, just more comfortable that way - think a few thumb sprains / dislocations have caused that!!
is good to watch at the gym other rowers too, and you can soon pick up correct technique etc.
Irish commentator - "the worst Australian side I have ever seen. Robbie Deans does not have a backup player in almost every position"
#6
-
- Members
- 16,845 posts
Super Moderator
Posted 11 August 2006 - 02:26 AM
What number are we rowing on and what's the difference? I always row on 10.
#7
-
- Members
- 22,502 posts
Senior Member
Posted 11 August 2006 - 02:34 AM
Damn, I was trying to find the thread where we were talking about this. 6 and 7 seem to be the most popular.
More resistance on ten but not always best to use. Like trying to ride a bike up a hill in the highest gear... you won't go very quick at all.
More resistance on ten but not always best to use. Like trying to ride a bike up a hill in the highest gear... you won't go very quick at all.
WAIKATO
Dona Nobis Pacem
Dona Nobis Pacem
#8
-
- Administrators
-
- 54,531 posts
Senior Member
Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:41 AM
for good times - longer rows lower the number, shorter the rows higer the number. What I've found anyway, so probably the reverse of what you should do!!
Irish commentator - "the worst Australian side I have ever seen. Robbie Deans does not have a backup player in almost every position"
#9
-
- Members
- 1,799 posts
Member
Posted 11 August 2006 - 11:17 AM
I dont know what type of concept two machine you are using, but the latest model has a setting where you can set the drage factor. The drag factor of water is generally between 130-140, so if you know how to set it and want water type drag, aim for this.
On the older concept two machines, it is generally between 4 and 5 on the resistence level. Less than this will make it harder to get your splits down and more than this will make it easier to get splits down, but of course the resistance is more as well.
Its all up to the individual in the end
On the older concept two machines, it is generally between 4 and 5 on the resistence level. Less than this will make it harder to get your splits down and more than this will make it easier to get splits down, but of course the resistance is more as well.
Its all up to the individual in the end
Its a matter of faith...
#10
-
- Members
- 6,289 posts
Senior Member
Posted 15 August 2006 - 04:10 AM
Dodge said:
What number are we rowing on and what's the difference? I always row on 10.
I basically row on 10 if I'm trying to get a very very fast time - usually 5k or 2k, (anything after 5k & I'm pretty much physically screwed if I'm doing it on 10) but on 4 or 5 if I'm just doing my usual work out which is 40-50 minutes with my heart rate around 135 (I use a polar), this generally translates to starting at about 2.05/500 & gradually slowing to 2.15/500 by the end to keep the heart rate level all the way.
A lot depends on what you are trying to do, I always struggle to keep my heart rate down when I'm rowing on 10, also I've never seen the point in rowing at 10 then doing arm weights after as after even 10 minutes at 10 my arms are starting to feel pretty sore, so then I end up doing a lame arm workout, but I would have thought going at 10 for 20 minutes would be a pretty good substitute for an arms workout if you don't have time & want both.
Did read somewhere that when top rowers compete over 2000m they set it at only 4 or so.. I suppose this would make sense if you are 6 foot 5 (as most of them are) as you want a lot of strokes using your full height. On the flip side the average prop is short but with a lot of explosive leg power so you want minimum strokes but putting the full strength into each one. So the answer would be "depends on your height & build". If you are 6'5 row at 5 & aim for 40 strokes a minute, if you are 5'5 & built like a barrel row at 10 & aim for 25 a minute..
As Warlord says 4 or 5 equate to water drag too so I suppose all the top guys train at this level day in day out as it replicates the real thing, thats possibly more the reason than any complicated power to height deal.
However you do it its always a trade off between the number of strokes you can do per minute (- your cardio capacity) and the power you can put into each stroke (- your strength)
...like listening to a recording, played in a continuous loop, of a man vomiting up his digestive tract while being bum-raped by a kodiak bear.
#11
-
- Members
- 5,799 posts
Senior Member
Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:50 AM
wouldn't a shorter person be aiming for higher stroke rate? would be hard for someone travelling a long way to get that faster stroke rate?
Wherever you go...
#12
-
- Members
- 6,289 posts
Senior Member
Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:27 AM
WillieTheWaiter said:
wouldn't a shorter person be aiming for higher stroke rate? would be hard for someone travelling a long way to get that faster stroke rate?
Yes, thinking about it after I wrote it I thought "um, I think thats backwards"
...like listening to a recording, played in a continuous loop, of a man vomiting up his digestive tract while being bum-raped by a kodiak bear.
#13
-
- Members
- 1,799 posts
Member
Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:43 PM
WillieTheWaiter said:
wouldn't a shorter person be aiming for higher stroke rate? would be hard for someone travelling a long way to get that faster stroke rate?
Its not so much that shorter people 'aim' for a higher stroke rate when rowing hard on the machine, its more that taller people struggle to achieve and hold the stroke rate, as you say, because they have further to travel on the slide as well as a longer back swing and arm draw.
Im about 2 metres tall and if im going flat tack on the rowing machine I generally aim to hold it about 26-28 strokes per minute, anything higher than that is just rushed. Whereas guys who are under between 1.7-1.9 metres can get up around 32 strokes per minute with relative ease
Its a matter of faith...
#14
-
- Administrators
-
- 54,531 posts
Senior Member
Posted 07 September 2006 - 03:46 PM
1.8m and rock along at 30 probably on average - some days a few more. have to coencetnrate to keep anytihng below 30 - 28 still comfy, 26 almost have to pause betweeen strokes!!
Irish commentator - "the worst Australian side I have ever seen. Robbie Deans does not have a backup player in almost every position"
#15
-
- Members
- 6,289 posts
Senior Member
Posted 07 September 2006 - 10:14 PM
BartMan said:
1.8m and rock along at 30 probably on average - some days a few more. have to coencetnrate to keep anytihng below 30 - 28 still comfy, 26 almost have to pause betweeen strokes!!
Yeah, I'm short arse - 5'7, & basically vary between 32-34, find to impossible to go under 28 without the pause thing which just seem's stupid as for it to workl well I need to just flow along
...like listening to a recording, played in a continuous loop, of a man vomiting up his digestive tract while being bum-raped by a kodiak bear.
#16
-
- Members
- 905 posts
Friend of the Fern
Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:41 PM
Thanks for all of these tips guys - after three weeks resting my body after rugby season (it bloody well needed it) I am back in the gym tomorrow and looking forward to taking on the concept 2.
Never rowed in my life and been on the machine a few times in the gym. Always found it a top workout but probably doing all sorts of damgae to my back by poor technique.
At the grand age of (almost) 37 I'm thinking of learning a new sport and rowing or kayaking are the two options Im leaning towards. But my lower back issues and bloody ITB effecting my knees may mean that Lawn Bowls may become the new hobby rather than on the water!
Thanks again for the tips - I wont post my times for a while though in the fear of embarassment next to you guys
Never rowed in my life and been on the machine a few times in the gym. Always found it a top workout but probably doing all sorts of damgae to my back by poor technique.
At the grand age of (almost) 37 I'm thinking of learning a new sport and rowing or kayaking are the two options Im leaning towards. But my lower back issues and bloody ITB effecting my knees may mean that Lawn Bowls may become the new hobby rather than on the water!
Thanks again for the tips - I wont post my times for a while though in the fear of embarassment next to you guys
#17
-
- Administrators
-
- 36,479 posts
Senior Member
Posted 08 September 2006 - 12:07 AM
lightbulb said:
Thanks for all of these tips guys - after three weeks resting my body after rugby season (it bloody well needed it) I am back in the gym tomorrow and looking forward to taking on the concept 2.
Never rowed in my life and been on the machine a few times in the gym. Always found it a top workout but probably doing all sorts of damgae to my back by poor technique.
At the grand age of (almost) 37 I'm thinking of learning a new sport and rowing or kayaking are the two options Im leaning towards. But my lower back issues and bloody ITB effecting my knees may mean that Lawn Bowls may become the new hobby rather than on the water!
Thanks again for the tips - I wont post my times for a while though in the fear of embarassment next to you guys
Never rowed in my life and been on the machine a few times in the gym. Always found it a top workout but probably doing all sorts of damgae to my back by poor technique.
At the grand age of (almost) 37 I'm thinking of learning a new sport and rowing or kayaking are the two options Im leaning towards. But my lower back issues and bloody ITB effecting my knees may mean that Lawn Bowls may become the new hobby rather than on the water!
Thanks again for the tips - I wont post my times for a while though in the fear of embarassment next to you guys
Hasn't stopped me
Robbie Deans: The worst Australian Coach of all time
#18
-
- Members
- 905 posts
Friend of the Fern
Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:01 AM
Kirwan said:
lightbulb said:
Thanks for all of these tips guys - after three weeks resting my body after rugby season (it bloody well needed it) I am back in the gym tomorrow and looking forward to taking on the concept 2.
Never rowed in my life and been on the machine a few times in the gym. Always found it a top workout but probably doing all sorts of damgae to my back by poor technique.
At the grand age of (almost) 37 I'm thinking of learning a new sport and rowing or kayaking are the two options Im leaning towards. But my lower back issues and bloody ITB effecting my knees may mean that Lawn Bowls may become the new hobby rather than on the water!
Thanks again for the tips - I wont post my times for a while though in the fear of embarassment next to you guys
Never rowed in my life and been on the machine a few times in the gym. Always found it a top workout but probably doing all sorts of damgae to my back by poor technique.
At the grand age of (almost) 37 I'm thinking of learning a new sport and rowing or kayaking are the two options Im leaning towards. But my lower back issues and bloody ITB effecting my knees may mean that Lawn Bowls may become the new hobby rather than on the water!
Thanks again for the tips - I wont post my times for a while though in the fear of embarassment next to you guys
Hasn't stopped me
OK - I will - but just to make you guys feel like you're Rob Waddell or Mahe Drysdale !!
#19
-
- Members
- 22,502 posts
Senior Member
Posted 14 September 2006 - 09:57 PM
Instructor changed my technique yesterday and it screwed me. He said I wasn't driving with my legs enough and pulling too hard.
It will take a while to adjust to this new technique.
One thing I noticed though was my reps went from 27-28 down to 21-23 but my time/500 dropped about 6 seconds per 500, so he has obviously changed me for the good
It will take a while to adjust to this new technique.
One thing I noticed though was my reps went from 27-28 down to 21-23 but my time/500 dropped about 6 seconds per 500, so he has obviously changed me for the good
WAIKATO
Dona Nobis Pacem
Dona Nobis Pacem
#20
-
- Administrators
-
- 54,531 posts
Senior Member
Posted 15 September 2006 - 08:30 AM
it's all in the legs baby, it's all in the legs!
Irish commentator - "the worst Australian side I have ever seen. Robbie Deans does not have a backup player in almost every position"
#21
-
- Members
- 905 posts
Friend of the Fern
Posted 15 September 2006 - 01:03 PM
Hooroo said:
Instructor changed my technique yesterday and it screwed me. He said I wasn't driving with my legs enough and pulling too hard.
It will take a while to adjust to this new technique.
One thing I noticed though was my reps went from 27-28 down to 21-23 but my time/500 dropped about 6 seconds per 500, so he has obviously changed me for the good
It will take a while to adjust to this new technique.
One thing I noticed though was my reps went from 27-28 down to 21-23 but my time/500 dropped about 6 seconds per 500, so he has obviously changed me for the good
BartMan said:
it's all in the legs baby, it's all in the legs!
I don't seem to be able to get the drive off though - and although I am no powerlifter, I would not think my thighs and calves are that weak...Might start doing some more squats to build up the strength in my legs and may help with this..
Technical question - how tight do you strap your feet in ? Should they be moving around a little / lot? When trying to focus on my leg drive it seems I am pushing more off the top of my feet but then I strap my feet in tighter and my knee is taking a bit of the strain (I think I f'd it yesterday trying to get my power up).
#22
-
- Administrators
-
- 54,531 posts
Senior Member
Posted 15 September 2006 - 01:53 PM
I strap the bastards in as tight as possible. There are people though that row with no straps at times - reckons it makes their technique have to be right - I ahve never really players about with that though, so can't really comment!
One thing though, if your rower is moving about when you row, your technique is all up the shit!!
One thing though, if your rower is moving about when you row, your technique is all up the shit!!
Irish commentator - "the worst Australian side I have ever seen. Robbie Deans does not have a backup player in almost every position"
#23
-
- Members
- 1,799 posts
Member
Posted 15 September 2006 - 03:43 PM
Strao your feet in as tight as is practical. Dont strap them so tight that it cuts off circulation or that it is uncomfortable, rather just so they arent moving around on the foot stretcher.
As for leg drive, think of accelerating your legs through the stroke, i think i wrote something about it earlier in this thread but try and squeeze of at the front and really drive your legs down towards the end of the slide
As for leg drive, think of accelerating your legs through the stroke, i think i wrote something about it earlier in this thread but try and squeeze of at the front and really drive your legs down towards the end of the slide
Its a matter of faith...
#24
-
- Members
- 905 posts
Friend of the Fern
Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:12 PM
BartMan said:
I strap the bastards in as tight as possible. There are people though that row with no straps at times - reckons it makes their technique have to be right - I ahve never really players about with that though, so can't really comment!
One thing though, if your rower is moving about when you row, your technique is all up the shit!!
One thing though, if your rower is moving about when you row, your technique is all up the shit!!
aucklandwarlord said:
Strao your feet in as tight as is practical. Dont strap them so tight that it cuts off circulation or that it is uncomfortable, rather just so they arent moving around on the foot stretcher.
As for leg drive, think of accelerating your legs through the stroke, i think i wrote something about it earlier in this thread but try and squeeze of at the front and really drive your legs down towards the end of the slide
As for leg drive, think of accelerating your legs through the stroke, i think i wrote something about it earlier in this thread but try and squeeze of at the front and really drive your legs down towards the end of the slide
Cheers guys - will work on it... Have not noticed the rower move around - but does not mean that my technique is not up the shit...
#25
-
- Members
-
- 264 posts
Advanced Member
Posted 29 September 2006 - 10:55 AM
shit I should've read this weeks ago. I've been doing all the work with my arms dam it with a stroke rate of about 38 then wondering how the fuck anyone can do it for more than 5 minutes.
#26
-
- Administrators
-
- 36,479 posts
Senior Member
Posted 05 October 2006 - 04:00 AM
I found this to be a clear explanation;
http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/tech ... hp?stage=1
Going to try it tonight and see what difference it makes. Spotted three or four things I'm doing wrong (pulling it up to high with bent wrists, leaning to far back, and moving too far down so my shins go past the verticle). According to the instructions I'm wasting a lot of energy.
http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/tech ... hp?stage=1
Going to try it tonight and see what difference it makes. Spotted three or four things I'm doing wrong (pulling it up to high with bent wrists, leaning to far back, and moving too far down so my shins go past the verticle). According to the instructions I'm wasting a lot of energy.
Robbie Deans: The worst Australian Coach of all time
#27
-
- Members
- 4,063 posts
Friend of the Fern
Posted 05 October 2006 - 04:13 AM
I can't compare the Oz cricket team with the All Blacks because the Kiwis are humble in their greatness - Lee Grant, 19th December 2008
#28
-
- Administrators
-
- 36,479 posts
Senior Member
Posted 05 October 2006 - 04:14 AM
MajorRage said:
Yeah, just read that this afternoon at "work". Having another crack at my 5km tonight.
Robbie Deans: The worst Australian Coach of all time
#29
-
- Members
- 905 posts
Friend of the Fern
Posted 21 December 2006 - 10:48 AM
Not sure if you guys have been on a 'Row Perfect' machine - similar to a Concept2 but with the 'wheel' end moving as well as the seat, and the slide being able to rock a little more, it imitates on-water rowinga lot closer. As a part of our training they do not let us on the Concept2 unless it is a time trial - prefer to make us get on the row perfect as it forces us to keep our technique right.
Anyway, my club held the 'RowPerfect' challenge a month ago - a time trial over 2k & 1k. Each year they invite the Waratahs (although the Junior squad only come down) to see what times they can post.
The best time, and what they believe is a world record on these typs of Erg was a bloke from Sydney Rowing Club who punched out 5min 44 secs !!!!
The best female did a 6:24 - and she is only 17. I have seen her on water form - she is brilliant.
Of the Waratahs (over 1500m) - Tim Davidson pulled 4:22 and Ben Hand 4:33.
That is all...
Anyway, my club held the 'RowPerfect' challenge a month ago - a time trial over 2k & 1k. Each year they invite the Waratahs (although the Junior squad only come down) to see what times they can post.
The best time, and what they believe is a world record on these typs of Erg was a bloke from Sydney Rowing Club who punched out 5min 44 secs !!!!
The best female did a 6:24 - and she is only 17. I have seen her on water form - she is brilliant.
Of the Waratahs (over 1500m) - Tim Davidson pulled 4:22 and Ben Hand 4:33.
That is all...
#30 Guest__*
-
- Guests
Posted 05 January 2007 - 03:00 AM
Do you fellas try to keep the heartrate down or just kill it?
Wondering if anyone has uses the "build the engine" approach with rowing...... got a model E for Christmas and starting to get into it.
Given up mountain biking for now as it misearable out and nearly got flattened by a madman in a beat up pickup who seems to think that cyclists don't have right of way! (What he told me after I shook my fist at him and he pulled over to ask me if I "wanted a piece" of him.)
Wondering if anyone has uses the "build the engine" approach with rowing...... got a model E for Christmas and starting to get into it.
Given up mountain biking for now as it misearable out and nearly got flattened by a madman in a beat up pickup who seems to think that cyclists don't have right of way! (What he told me after I shook my fist at him and he pulled over to ask me if I "wanted a piece" of him.)
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
