9 replies to this topic

[Bones]

I'd imagine this may be a simple one for the refs on here but I'm curious.

Playing in the weekend, we had a situation where we won a lineout just outside our 22, got driven back into the 22, play turned to a ruck (breakdown) from which we then cleared (kicked) the ball, it going out on the full around the 10m mark. The ref then awarded a lineout to the opposition from where the ball was kicked.

Was this correct?

My understanding of the law was that once you have a breakdown inside the 22, you can then kick to touch from inside the 22 and the lineout will be awarded where the ball goes into touch, regardless of on the full or not.

[Thomond78]

Driven back in counts as taking it back in. You've had the ridiculous situation in the 6N where a ball coming to the back of a ruck just outside the 22 crosses the 22 and has to be counted as being brought back in. xzxidiot2

[Bones]

I can understand the one where the ruck is outside the 22 but the ball crosses over, but if you're driven back across the 22 in a tackle and then a breakdown occurs...well a breakdown has occured hasn't it? Same as if you've passed back in and a breakdown occurs I would've thought...

[Thomond78]

I'll check it, but as far as I remember, the ELV just says that if you bring it back into your 22, then it applies, regardless of what happens after it.

Daft, but not the first time they've cocked up like this.

[Duluth]

Thomond78 said:

I'll check it, but as far as I remember, the ELV just says that if you bring it back into your 22, then it applies, regardless of what happens after it.

Daft, but not the first time they've cocked up like this.

I think if a ruck occurs inside the 22 it is ok to kick directly out

But the important thing is where the breakdown starts not where it ends.

So a mass of bodies originally outside the 22 being driven back means carried back.
My understanding is even though the ruck may not have been created yet the mass of bodies in the muck counts as the beggining of the breakdown?

[Duluth]

Law 19.1 THROW IN

NO GAIN IN GROUND

(a) Outside a team’s 22, a team member kicks directly into touch. Except for a penalty kick, when a player anywhere in the field of play who is outside the 22 kicks directly into touch, there is no gain in ground. The throw in is taken either at the place opposite where the player kicked the ball, or at the place where it went into touch, whichever is nearer that player’s goal line.

( When a team causes the ball to be put into that team’s 22. When a defending player plays the ball from outside the 22 and it goes into that player’s 22 or in-goal area without touching an opposition player and then that player or another player from that team kicks the ball directly into touch before it touches an opposition player, or a tackle takes place or a ruck or maul is formed, there is no gain in ground. This applies when a defending player moves back behind the 22 metre line to take a quick throw-in and then the ball is kicked directly into touch.

© Defending team takes the ball into that team’s 22 at a scrum or lineout. When a defending team throws the ball into a scrum or lineout outside that team’s 22 and the ball then crosses into the team’s 22 without touching an opposition player and then a player from the defending team kicks the ball directly into touch before it touches an opposition player, or a tackle takes place or a ruck or maul is formed, there is no gain in ground.

GAIN IN GROUND

(d) Player takes the ball into that team’s 22. When a defending player plays the ball from outside the 22 and it goes into that player’s 22 or in-goal area and it touches an opposition player, or a tackle takes place or a ruck or maul is formed, and then the ball is kicked by a player of that team directly in touch, the throw in is where the ball went into touch.

(e) Ball put into a player’s 22 by the opposition. When the ball is put into a team’s 22 by the opposition, without having touched (or been touched by) a player of the defending team before crossing the 22 and the ball is then kicked into touch by the defending team, the throw in is where the ball went into touch.

(f) Kicks indirectly into touch. When a player anywhere in the playing area kicks indirectly into touch so that the ball bounces in the field of play the throw in is taken where the ball went into touch.

When a player anywhere in the playing area kicks the ball so that it touches or is touched by an opposition player and then goes indirectly into touch so that the ball bounces in the field of play the throw in is taken where the ball went into touch.

When a player anywhere in the playing area kicks the ball so that it touches or is touched by an opposition player and then goes directly into touch the throw in is taken in line with where the opposition player touched the ball or where the ball crossed the touch line if that is nearer the opposition player’s goal line.


So I guess the ref called it a tackle, ruck or maul as you were being driven over?

[Bones]

From how I saw it, (d) applies. Chur!

Player was tackled outside, driven back, to the ground which was when a breakdown (ruck) occured.

[Thomond78]

I'd read it as being . You played it in (albeit in a ruck). You then need another ruck/maul/tackle for the ELV to apply - that's why the use of "and then" in ; it's a second condition in the test.

Sequence is:
1) Brought in by your team by any means? If no, fine; if yes, go to 2).
2) If yes, separate tackle/ruck/maul after brought in?

If you answer "No" to 2), then there is no gain in ground.

Now, that's my reading of it; but so badly drafted is it, it'll bear either.

Who the fuck do they get to draft this shit, house-broken chimps? xzxmad

[Smuts]

One can only hope that this rule gets the heave-ho soonest. It was designed to reduce the amount of kicking in the game and encourage teams to counter attack more. Fail on both counts.

[Billy Webb]

Smuts said:

One can only hope that this rule gets the heave-ho soonest. It was designed to reduce the amount of kicking in the game and encourage teams to counter attack more. Fail on both counts.

Completely agree with Smuts.
Not to mention the fact that it is making lineouts - one of the best 1st phase attacking platforms - something of a rarity.