68 replies to this topic

[Scorz]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/ar ... d=10599837

Quote

...A major All Black selection surprise has already been sprung ahead of their European tour, with Isaac Ross to be left at home to bulk up.

The Canterbury lock, who many would rate the find of the season, will be in the gym this summer looking to add at least 5kg to his 113kg frame. Inevitably, his omission from what will be either a 32-man or 34-man tour party, will spark talk of the 24-year-old having been dropped.

But such a portrayal would be a harsh interpretation. Far from being disappointed with Ross's rookie season, the All Black coaches are thought to have firmed on their view of Ross as a potential world class lock....

Article continues

[Hooroo]

Thing I hate about that is, did they not see he was slight when first selecting him.

He should tour IMO. Will get a hell of a lot more benifit from playing international rugby that he will sitting at home lifting weights

[Bones]

Hooroo said:

Thing I hate about that is, did they not see he was slight when first selecting him.

He should tour IMO. Will get a hell of a lot more benifit from playing international rugby that he will sitting at home lifting weights

Perhaps they thought it may not have been too much of a hinderance but have since decided that he'd benefit from adding a few more muscles?

[Scorz]

I think it was needs musting Hooroo otherwise they would have left him to the ANZC while telling him to do the weights.

[Kirwan]

Hooroo said:

Thing I hate about that is, did they not see he was slight when first selecting him.

He should tour IMO. Will get a hell of a lot more benifit from playing international rugby that he will sitting at home lifting weights

They were running out of choices when they selected him due to all the injuries. He's a good like for like replacement for Ali Williams, so his selection made perfect sense.

AB coaches did the same thing for Norm Maxwell, and it's harder to avoid drug testing if you are playing rugby.....

[Hooroo]

True!

I still reckon he should be playing though!

[MN5]

Boric back in then ? how has he looked since coming back ?

[booboo]

Hooroo said:

Thing I hate about that is, did they not see he was slight when first selecting him.

Didn't have a lot of choice at the time? (Although they may have decided to go with Donnelly earlier ... eusa_think ).

[BartMan]

Boric been looking bloody good I reckon - at 6 too, but he's a lock!

[MN5]

Good to hear, I've watched approximately one minute of his play since he came back. He's a much better lock/6 option on the bench than Eaton in my opinion. A good inspiration for how Ross should try and look by the start of next season !

[Unco-ordinated]

I wish they'd told him that he doesn't wear a 11 or 14 on his back too.

Edit: Seems to me, he going to be sitting on the bench a bit next year for the Crusaders. Unless Jack or Thorn are dropped to the bench but I don't really see that happening.

[Baron Silas Greenback]

Unco-ordinated said:

I wish they'd told him that he doesn't wear a 11 or 14 on his back too.

I agree, I was disappointed with him this year, I think he played poorly. He was the one calling the lineouts and they were a disaster. Obviously that is a shared fault amongst the some other forwards and the coaches, but he has to take some responsibility for it. He seems to be the teflon lock.

[FredDagg1979]

Hooroo said:

Thing I hate about that is, did they not see he was slight when first selecting him.

He should tour IMO. Will get a hell of a lot more benifit from playing international rugby that he will sitting at home lifting weights

Exactly - what's going to make him a better player - playing Test rugby or spending November in the gym living weights and going home to scoff protein shakes?

Bearing in mind he has December, January, and February to go on a weight gain binge, this seems pointless to me and another example of the Cartel focussing on athletes and not rugby players.

[Red Beard]

It kind of makes me wonder why they didnt select Donnelly in the number 5 jersey all along, if theve just realised now that Ross needs another stone on him.

[Scorz]

MN5 said:

Good to hear, I've watched approximately one minute of his play since he came back. He's a much better lock/6 option on the bench than Eaton in my opinion. A good inspiration for how Ross should try and look by the start of next season !

Haven't you been reading your Fat Guts Hansen Rugby Coaching Manual?

Section 1, Paragraph 1: "ANZC form means NOTHING. "

Examples: T Donnelly, A Thompson.

Boric is wasting his time trying to play his way in from there...

[Sambo]

FredDagg1979 said:

Hooroo said:

Thing I hate about that is, did they not see he was slight when first selecting him.

He should tour IMO. Will get a hell of a lot more benifit from playing international rugby that he will sitting at home lifting weights

Exactly - what's going to make him a better player - playing Test rugby or spending November in the gym living weights and going home to scoff protein shakes?

Bearing in mind he has December, January, and February to go on a weight gain binge, this seems pointless to me and another example of the Cartel focussing on athletes and not rugby players.

Mate they start playing in Feb so i don't think he's going to be doing a huge amount of weights in jan/feb.

Makes perfect sense to me. Go away and get set for a huge year next year and at the same time Boric & Donnelly get a shit load of AB footy under their belts. We come back next year with Jack, Thorn, Eaton, Boric, Ali, Donnelly & Ross as genuine Ab lock contenders. All good from where i'm sitting.

[Sambo]

Scorz said:

MN5 said:

Good to hear, I've watched approximately one minute of his play since he came back. He's a much better lock/6 option on the bench than Eaton in my opinion. A good inspiration for how Ross should try and look by the start of next season !

Haven't you been reading your Fat Guts Hansen Rugby Coaching Manual?

Section 1, Paragraph 1: "ANZC form means NOTHING. "

Examples: T Donnelly, A Thompson.

Boric is wasting his time trying to play his way in from there...

to be truthful i've watched little ANZC rugby in recent years and had memories of how good it is, but the last couple of weeks i have caught a few games and i have to say i have been shocked at how poor the skill level is.

[MN5]

Scorz said:

MN5 said:

Good to hear, I've watched approximately one minute of his play since he came back. He's a much better lock/6 option on the bench than Eaton in my opinion. A good inspiration for how Ross should try and look by the start of next season !

Haven't you been reading your Fat Guts Hansen Rugby Coaching Manual?

Section 1, Paragraph 1: "ANZC form means NOTHING. "

Examples: T Donnelly, A Thompson.

Boric is wasting his time trying to play his way in from there...

To be fair he could probably drop every ball he tries to catch, miss every tackle and lineout and still get picked.

[Scorz]

Sambo said:

Scorz said:

MN5 said:

Good to hear, I've watched approximately one minute of his play since he came back. He's a much better lock/6 option on the bench than Eaton in my opinion. A good inspiration for how Ross should try and look by the start of next season !

Haven't you been reading your Fat Guts Hansen Rugby Coaching Manual?

Section 1, Paragraph 1: "ANZC form means NOTHING. "

Examples: T Donnelly, A Thompson.

Boric is wasting his time trying to play his way in from there...

to be truthful i've watched little ANZC rugby in recent years and had memories of how good it is, but the last couple of weeks i have caught a few games and i have to say i have been shocked at how poor the skill level is.

By the same token though mate, some of the skill on display has been brilliant. Noticably the day games are "nicer" to watch. I think we often fall into the trap of noticing the negatives more easily.

[Sambo]

Scorz said:

Sambo said:

Scorz said:

MN5 said:

Good to hear, I've watched approximately one minute of his play since he came back. He's a much better lock/6 option on the bench than Eaton in my opinion. A good inspiration for how Ross should try and look by the start of next season !

Haven't you been reading your Fat Guts Hansen Rugby Coaching Manual?

Section 1, Paragraph 1: "ANZC form means NOTHING. "

Examples: T Donnelly, A Thompson.

Boric is wasting his time trying to play his way in from there...

to be truthful i've watched little ANZC rugby in recent years and had memories of how good it is, but the last couple of weeks i have caught a few games and i have to say i have been shocked at how poor the skill level is.

By the same token though mate, some of the skill on display has been brilliant. Noticably the day games are "nicer" to watch. I think we often fall into the trap of noticing the negatives more easily.

I know 2-3 games is no genuine way of making a call, but i have to say the ones i watched i was genuinely shocked and actually concerned at how poor basic skills were, one on one defense and general kicking and basic catch and pass.

[mariner4life]

I think it is a good move by the coaches. Ross obviously has the raw talent to make it as a test lock, however i was very disappointed this year (after thinking he was a deserving selection at the start, so its not just the Cartel scorz). I think a bit more bulk will really help him (but him on whatever program the put Boric on to turn him from a rake into a weapon), and hopefully the coaches have given him a specific list of things to concentrate on in the S14 next year (ie play like a fucking tight forward son).

I still rate Boric higher, and i think Donnelly is suited to a NH tour (his type of game will be an asset in any tight 5 orientated slog) so we should be good for locks (along with Eaton i guess). This should give us the luxury of investing time in Ross (and yes i think excluding him from a tour for specific reasons as investing time)

[Red Beard]

Sambo said:

FredDagg1979 said:

Hooroo said:

Thing I hate about that is, did they not see he was slight when first selecting him.

He should tour IMO. Will get a hell of a lot more benifit from playing international rugby that he will sitting at home lifting weights

Exactly - what's going to make him a better player - playing Test rugby or spending November in the gym living weights and going home to scoff protein shakes?

Bearing in mind he has December, January, and February to go on a weight gain binge, this seems pointless to me and another example of the Cartel focussing on athletes and not rugby players.

Mate they start playing in Feb so i don't think he's going to be doing a huge amount of weights in jan/feb.

Makes perfect sense to me. Go away and get set for a huge year next year and at the same time Boric & Donnelly get a shit load of AB footy under their belts. We come back next year with Jack, Thorn, Eaton, Boric, Ali, Donnelly & Ross as genuine Ab lock contenders. All good from where i'm sitting.

No gaurantee he will put on any weight either depending on his metabiolism. Carl Hayman burned off all the hard earned muscle mass he put on as soon as he returned to the fray after the reconditioning window in 2007.

[Bar]

"Red Beard said:

No gaurantee he will put on any weight either depending on his metabiolism. Carl Hayman burned off all the hard earned muscle mass he put on as soon as he returned to the fray after the reconditioning window in 2007.

Well thats just poor from Hayman, clearly wasn't eating enough.

They want Ross to get bigger but 3kg in 3 months isnt really going to be that much of a help one would think?

[AledforPM]

Good move.

Its also a subtle (or not so subtle) hint that he needs to get more direct in his style and get that hard edge.

What people often miss is that 3-5kg of muscle might not make a huge difference in reality - but it has a huge placebo effect sometimes. I know plenty of guys who get in the gym, work hard, and come out the next season with a different mindset.. in reality they may be only a few kgs heavier, or only 10% stronger - but they feel bulletproof and much stronger than they were before... This can be a huge thing when you are trying to develop a guy and convince him to throw his body around a bit harder and more recklessly.

Ali Williams is another lock who has added some genuine size since first coming in and I'm sure part of it is good coaching and natural maturity but I have to think part of his 'harder edge' he's been showing the last few seasons comes from a bit more bulk and a bit more confidence.

[junior]

Quote

The Canterbury lock, who many would rate the find of the season, will be in the gym this summer looking to add at least 5kg to his 113kg frame. Inevitably, his omission from what will be either a 32-man or 34-man tour party, will spark talk of the 24-year-old having been dropped.

Hardly made of string now, is he? The biggest thing is not that he is a lightweight, it's that he plays like one. There were several times this year we had an opportunity to really bury a shoulder into an opposition player at ruck time and he just stood by, guard-dog style. His weight is fine, IMHO, he needs to go on tour and play some hard rugby to toughen up.

[MN5]

The solution is simple. He needs to hang around Brad Thorn when he heads to the gym. After he has collapsed a few times under whatever Brad is benching/squatting he reduces the weights as necesary, lifts them, devours a few steaks and rests hard. Lots of sleep between workouts that is the KEY ! I saw on the news that he has a little kid so that is a big ask but an AB's partner/wife shouldn't need to work so she can stay awake during those awkward teething months applying the bonjela and making sure the dummy doesn't get lost.

[BartMan]

I think it's a pause for him to sit back, re group, re asses, see where he thinks he needs to go - all the above valid, and not so valid points will have been pointed out to him, and next season, with a tight forwards mindset, he will be set to challenge as a genuine test lock, having to beat off other genuine test locks for a 4 or 5 jersey, as opposed to receiving his by default after the run of injuries on the NZ tall timber.

Can only be good for him and NZ rugby in my mind.

[ACT Crusader]

Red Beard said:

It kind of makes me wonder why they didnt select Donnelly in the number 5 jersey all along, if theve just realised now that Ross needs another stone on him.

Yeah that baffles me. Had Donnelly done anything out of the ordinary (ie different to what we saw in this and last years S14) during a few NPC games to suddenly be in the frame? Not from what I saw.

I also think Ross needs to tighten up and learn how to niggle and fire up into the opposition. While lifting weights can assist in helping adrenilin levels and can be known to make people more aggressive, I think landing his shoulder into a people at traiing etc would do wonders. I'd have him in the squad but unless he changed he wouuldn't be guaranteed in the 22 as was the case in the 3Ns and early tests.

[BartMan]

oh, and miles on the clock. He's just got to get out there at NPC and Super level, and play for as long and as hard as he can, every week.

The reason he took a while to look half decent at test level, before fading, and the reason Donnelly looked like a seasoned vet after 50 minutes was experience. Big Tom has been there, done that, and got the scars to prove it - how many first class games has he got - 100+ even 150+. Ross, maybe 50...?

For a tight forward you have to serve an apprenticeship, getting your hands dirty, not spend 4 years at varsity and come out with all the theory in the world, but no practical experience. If you want to be a coal digger, go out and dig coal, don't read about it!!

[AledforPM]

[quote name='ACT Crusader'][quote name='"Red Beard":2egkbbw8']It kind of makes me wonder why they didnt select Donnelly in the number 5 jersey all along, if theve just realised now that Ross needs another stone on him.[/quote]

Yeah that baffles me. Had Donnelly done anything out of the ordinary (ie different to what we saw in this and last years S14) during a few NPC games to suddenly be in the frame? Not from what I saw.

I also think Ross needs to tighten up and learn how to niggle and fire up into the opposition. While lifting weights can assist in helping adrenilin levels and can be known to make people more aggressive, I think landing his shoulder into a people at traiing etc would do wonders. I'd have him in the squad but unless he changed he wouuldn't be guaranteed in the 22 as was the case in the 3Ns and early tests.[/quote:2egkbbw8]

Rightly or wrongly the AB coaches have a habit of taking guys with 'the package' and backing themselves to get the best out of them. I guess they looked around for the guy who offered the closest to what Ali offers, found Ross, realised he needed to play with 'edge', backed themselves to get it but have found he either doesn't have the bulk or doesn't have the confidence to do it against the likes of SA.

I guess after that 3rd SA game when he yet again failed to stand up physically and be a presence in the trenches they shelved him and went with a ready-made guy like Donnelly who doesn't have quite the same potential to fill Ali's boots but does a fine job playing his own game.

113 kgs on a guy his height is not much in the professional game.