46 replies to this topic

[Duluth]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 51,00.html

Quote

STIRLING Mortlock's 28-Test reign as Australia captain is over and George Smith's role as caretaker skipper is not to be extended as Rocky Elsom is set to be named today to lead the Wallabies on their end-of-season tour.

Sources have told The Australian Mortlock will not be continuing as captain, which will come as a major disappointment to him but certainly as no great surprise as he has not played since badly injuring a knee in the August 8 Tri-Nations loss to South Africa in Cape Town.

While recuperating from surgery he travelled to Japan to explore post-Test career options, a trip that sent a message to the Australian Rugby Union that Mortlock himself is beginning to doubt whether his form and fitness will last through to the 2011 World Cup.

While Mortlock has been told he is not out of contention, it is understood Elsom is to be anointed as the 76th Wallabies captain, although Berrick Barnes continues to hover as a genuine alternative, with Queensland Reds skipper James Horwill also rating some discussion as a left-field captaincy candidate.

Mortlock first captained the Wallabies to a commanding 43-18 victory over England in Melbourne in June 2006 and initially enjoyed a successful run, winning 11 of his first 15 Tests in charge - albeit losing the 2007 World Cup quarter-final to England when his last-gasp, long-range penalty goal attempt to win the match just faded wide.

But since Robbie Deans became coach last year, Mortlock's winning percentage has plunged from a peak of 73 per cent to just 46 per cent, with the Wallabies losing seven of their past 13 Tests under him.

Indeed, take out the two wins against 12th-ranked Italy, and his winning ratio free falls to just over 36 per cent, although overall Mortlock finishes with a respectable 17 wins from 28 Tests.

Only three other players in history have captained Australia in more Tests - George Gregan (59), John Eales (55) and Nick Farr-Jones (36).

Smith's captaincy record, four wins from seven Tests, is marginally worse although under him the Wallabies scored shock wins over the All Blacks and Springboks when both were ranked No1 in the world.

He also led a youthful Australian side to an 18-11 triumph over the Barbarians last December at Wembley, a match that started out in traditional free-flowing fashion and ended up a brutal contest as the Barbarians, boasting 11 members of the World Cup-winning Springboks side, bristled at the Wallabies' ferocious tackling.

But while it appears a foregone conclusion that Mortlock's four-year run as captain is over and that Smith, a reluctant skipper right from the moment he led a rookie Wallabies midweek side to a shock loss to the Ospreys in Wales in 2006, will not be burdened with those duties any longer, it is not entirely clear who will succeed them.

Elsom remains the raging hot favourite and it is understood he has been promised the job. But it may very well be that the quality that most stamps him as a potentially great leader - that he is entirely his own man - might not sit comfortably with some Australian rugby powerbrokers.

Barnes, who Deans yesterday confirmed will share the five-eighth duties with Matt Giteau on the tour, has not been ruled out as a captaincy contender, with ARU chief executive John O'Neill rumoured to be championing his cause.

Significantly, Giteau is not in the picture as a captaincy contender, which strongly reinforces rumours he is not enjoying his rugby under Deans.

Certainly if Giteau is not under consideration, it represents a stunning downgrading of his standing within the Wallabies over the past two seasons. Former Australia coach John Connolly revealed this week it had been a toss-up in his mind whether to give the World Cup captaincy to Mortlock or Giteau.

"In the end, it came down to the fact that Mortlock was the more experienced player but it could just as easily have gone to Giteau," Connolly said.

Whoever is named as captain will face a tough initiation as the Wallabies head to Tokyo for their October 31 showdown with the All Blacks needing a win to avoid a seventh consecutive Bledisloe Test defeat - the worst losing streak in trans-Tasman rugby since the game turned professional.

Then follows a daunting grand slam tour against England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. All are powerful set-piece teams that will now - following the announcement that Nathan Sharpe will miss the tour to undergo shoulder surgery - fancy their chances of putting as much pressure on the Wallabies' lineout as on their scrum.

[Razbra]

I would have thought the bigger story here was that Mortlock was shopping himself around.

[Watu]

Rocky would be a far better candidate than George "dim" Smith.

"And congratulations to the Boks for winning the Tri-Nations...." cue bemused looks from the Boks.

"At least we scored four tries and got the bonus..." after scoring three in Perth.

[Virgil]

Quote

SYDNEY - Powerful backrower Rocky Elsom has replaced Stirling Mortlock as captain in an Australian squad which contains seven uncapped players for the upcoming Grand Slam tour of Britain and Ireland.

The 35-man Wallabies squad announced Friday has two new leaders in 26-year-old Elsom, who has played 44 tests, and Berrick Barnes, a 23-year-old first five-eighths or inside center who was named as vice-captain.

George Smith had deputized as captain during the Tri-Nations series after Mortlock was injured in South Africa and sidelined for most of the tournament. The Wallabies finished last with one win - at home against eventual champion South Africa - and five losses. In angry post-match blast, Deans accused the Wallabies of giving up in the late stages of the 33-6 loss in Wellington in the last match against New Zealand.

Both Smith and Mortlock, an 80-test veteran, retained their spots in the touring squad.

"Stirling has done a good job as Australian skipper, both before I became involved, and over the last 16 months," Wallabies coach Robbie Deans said. "He also understands that this initiative has no meaning in terms of his playing future.

"He has indicated a desire to continue not only to play but also to lead and we respect that."

Veteran forwards Nathan Sharpe and Phil Waugh were not considered because of injury, while Al Baxter, Australia's most-capped prop, was overlooked for selection.

Australia will play a Bledisloe Cup test against New Zealand in Tokyo later this month before heading to Europe to take on England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales in its first tour against all four so-called "Home Nations" since its victorious Grand Slam tour in 1984.

Smith, who has played 105 tests, is still regarded among the best loose forwards in the game but not suited to the captaincy, Deans said.

He wanted a forward as captain and selected Elsom because of his certainty of selection and inspirational go-forward ability.

"Rocky has the respect of his teammates because of his approach and the total commitment he brings to the game," Deans said.

Flanker Matt Hodgson and first five-eighths Kurtley Beale have been involved in Wallabies squad before but have never won test caps. Joining them on this tour are young Queensland Reds halfback Richard Kingi, center Rob Horne, flanker Mitchell Chapman, lock Dave Dennis and prop Salesi Ma'afu.

Deans announced the squad a day after a four-day training camp in Sydney involved 43 players culminated with a simulated trial match, giving the younger players a chance to push for selection in match conditions.

"This tour provides us with a development opportunity, through our two midweek games," Deans said, explaining the absence of Baxter and Waugh, who would have been available later on the tour. "That is why we have opted to introduce some younger players."

Squad:

Backs: James O'Connor, Lachie Turner, Drew Mitchell, Peter Hynes, Digby Ioane, Rob Horne, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Stirling Mortlock, Ryan Cross, Berrick Barnes (vice-captain), Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper, Matt Giteau, Will Genia, Luke Burgess, Richard Kingi.

Forwards: Richard Brown, Wycliff Palu, David Pocock, George Smith, Rocky Elsom (captain), Matt Hodgson, David Dennis, Mitchell Chapman, Dean Mumm, Mark Chisholm, James Horwill, Benn Robinson, Ben Alexander, Pek Cowan, Sekope Kepu, Salesi Ma'afu, Matt Dunning, Stephen Moore, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Damien Fitzpatrick.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10602249

[HB]

So one injury prone player has been ditched for another.

[Lee Grant]

I don't know that the last named played was selected - Kirkpatrick is not listed on the ARU website - and he makes 36. One of the props, Pek Cowan, is being cross trained as a hooker so it may be that the inclusion of Fitzy's name is an error.

Dave Dennis is an absolute non-entity that can't get a regular game with the Tahs when he is healthy, which is not often. He's a decent club player and that's about it. Kingi is being taken for development purposes but I can't see that he will be much more than a good 7s player.

[Sambo]

who's kirkpatrick?

[Mojoman]

Good choice. Although I've felt that his return this year has been overrated, Elsom looks to command respect and seems good leadership material.

[Lee Grant]

Sambo

Kirkpatrick was the Oz U/20 captain this year and was Oz Schools captain in 2007. He has a contract with the Tahs but is ostensibly just 3rd string behind TPN and Freier.

I've mentioned him before as a Keith Wood type hooker. He is not proven in professional rugby yet, but I think that it's just a matter of time as he seems a hard enough player who is going to be big enough.

[Mojoman]

Probably a year too early for Fitzpatrick. He doesn't have the strength in tight to be effective yet. Apparently @ the Tahs he's known as the "poor mans Tatafu Polota-nau" for his ability with ball in hand.

[Lee Grant]

He's a different kind of player to TPN so the comparison is not instructive.

But you're right - he needs to finish off his physical development in the gym. It's one thing I don't like about Oz teams using young blokes. Sometimes they put them on the park against big thugs on the veldt months after leaving school whereas in NZ they wouldn't be used until 2-3 years later when they have have a backlog of gym work and senior club rugby. Fitzy played in the Super14 this year at age 19 - I wonder how old his counterpart in the Kiwi U20 team this year will be when he debuts in Super rugby?

But I digress. TPN is a brutish tackler and likes running into people when he has the ball. He's a bit like Kev without the footwork.

Fitzy is a 4th backrower type who is on the ball and often on the hip of a player making the break. He's a great linker and a better ball player than TPN on his best day.

But he is only 20 and hasn't started in a S14 game yet. He wouldn't have played much S14 this year but for Freier's bicep injury.

We have to "watch this space" on Fitzpatrick. Great surname for a hooker though, don't you think?

[PS - It's confirmed: Fitzpatrick is not in the Oz EOYT squad.]

[Kirwan]

Lee, what's you thoughts on Rocky being captain? He's always struck me as dumb as a post, certainly not in Gregan or Mortlock's class IMO.

And do you have any goss on Giteau, is there a problem between him and Dingo Deans?

[Sambo]

Lee Grant [Aussie said:

]Sambo

Kirkpatrick was the Oz U/20 captain this year and was Oz Schools captain in 2007. He has a contract with the Tahs but is ostensibly just 3rd string behind TPN and Freier.

I've mentioned him before as a Keith Wood type hooker. He is not proven in professional rugby yet, but I think that it's just a matter of time as he seems a hard enough player who is going to be big enough.

yep, i know who you are talking about now...

[Lee Grant]

Kirwan said:

Lee, what's you thoughts on Rocky being captain? He's always struck me as dumb as a post, certainly not in Gregan or Mortlock's class IMO.

And do you have any goss on Giteau, is there a problem between him and Dingo Deans?

Rocky's not dumb at all; he's a thinker and a bit of a renaissance man like Kronfield and Oliver (the younger).

I don't know that he has any captaincy record but because of the way he plays I'd warrant that the Wallaby forwards will follow him out of the trenches like the Tahs forwards follow Waugh. One thing for sure: he is not an establishment man and I bet the ARU is taking a deep breath.

Giteau - I don't know that he has a particular problem with Deans but he comes across as a bit of a princess these days. The mail is that he won't be around for the long haul. He was pretty bitter about not being paid his 3rd party money by a dodgy outfit and that was never guaranteed by the Force. Thus we think he is looking offshore and not necessarily waiting until after the next 2011.

That could be hogwash, but it was going the rounds at the Wallaby internal trial yesterday.

From a rugby point of view I thought that Deans made a mistake playing him at 10 and Barnes at 12 in 2008 when at the 2007 RWC it was the other way around and it worked a treat in the pool game against Wales. But you couldn't argue against Giteau's success at 10 in the Super14 in the last 2 years or in internationals in 2008.

Since then other international teams have found out what I and others always knew: that he was a 12 playing 10 and that his great attribute was running with the ball and especially on the outside break. Thus you defend with your inside shoulder and force him in. He is also a bit Horan like in that he can instantly crack onto an incident in a fluid situation. But the outside breaks and the fluid situation possibilities are more fruitful away from ruck traffic in the midfield and that's where he should be.

Thus the goss is that Deans will marginalise him as a 10 and use Barnes' better long pass to launch Giteau. They both still work as 1st receivers from the ruck but the feeling is that Giteau is miffed.

This also could be hogwash - but one has to wonder why Barnes was appointed vice-captain today and not Giteau.

[Kirwan]

Yeah, I agree complete about the 10/12 swap. Barnes reminds me a lot of Larkham, he just needs more luck with his injuries.

[Razbra]

I would have the thought you'd prefer a captain who actually stays on the field. Injuries and yellow cards are Elsom's forté. Im not saying he's a dumbass but the guys is definitely a bloody loose cannon can't see the sense in this. It is a pretty swift turn around for guy who hasn't played a hell of a lot with the current squad. How many games in the 3N did he play (SFA!)and no S14. Pretty fucking risky...

Barnes does have a good head on his shoulders but I would have thought Giteau being the most senior back,after Mortlock, would have been the obvious choice.

This really is crazy stuff, well at least to me. Nathan Sharpe must well and truly be on the outer.

[ACT Crusader]

Fitzpatrick isn't such a bad selection. A few years back there was Fainga'a as an age grade captain/hooker that was getting the wraps, but IMO he will never have the size for a long term test hooker. Fitzpatrick does. Plus he does have a few ball playing skills. Thing I liked about him at age grade level was his workrate and seems to be fairly measured for a young'un.

As for Elsom, I do have iimages of a very young Elsom playing at schoolboy level crying his eyes out wanting his mummy, but he has come a long way from then. Too early for Barnes, so its the logical longterm choice right now as a fit Elsom is a certain starter.

[Lee Grant]

ACTC

Kirkpatrick wasn't selected. The list earlier in this thread is wrong.



Razbra

Sharpe is having an operation and was never going to tour.

[mogwai]

Duluth said:

http://www.theaustra...5015651,00.html

Quote

although overall Mortlock finishes with a respectable 17 wins from 28 Tests.

this is my favourite bit. The idea that that is "respectable". In the new era the wobblies are obviously setting the bar at the right level.

Arf!

[Razbra]

Lee Grant [Aussie said:

]ACTC

Kirkpatrick wasn't selected. The list earlier in this thread is wrong.



Razbra

Sharpe is having an operation and was never going to tour.

How have I missed that? Righto!

[Billy Webb]

Razbra said:

I would have the thought you'd prefer a captain who actually stays on the field. Injuries and yellow cards are Elsom's forté. Im not saying he's a dumbass but the guys is definitely a bloody loose cannon can't see the sense in this.

Wasn't that the case with Martin Johnson (not the injuries bit) before he became Lions and England captain?

[Razbra]

Billy Webb said:

Razbra said:

I would have the thought you'd prefer a captain who actually stays on the field. Injuries and yellow cards are Elsom's forté. Im not saying he's a dumbass but the guys is definitely a bloody loose cannon can't see the sense in this.

Wasn't that the case with Martin Johnson (not the injuries bit) before he became Lions and England captain?

Johnson would often get in trouble, your right. But the difference was he would do things, even though he'd get pinged, that would lift his team. Take out the opposing enforcers.
Give a clip to the idiot in the other team. Plenty of brainless stuff too but he lifted his team.

Elsom does some fucking stupid shit and its just to do "stupid shit". First game back and he attempts to take out McCaw in his first game back in a year in the first action of the game.

Thats just stupid not inspired.

[Billy Webb]

Razbra said:

Billy Webb said:

Razbra said:

I would have the thought you'd prefer a captain who actually stays on the field. Injuries and yellow cards are Elsom's forté. Im not saying he's a dumbass but the guys is definitely a bloody loose cannon can't see the sense in this.

Wasn't that the case with Martin Johnson (not the injuries bit) before he became Lions and England captain?

Johnson would often get in trouble, your right. But the difference was he would do things, even though he'd get pinged, that would lift his team. Take out the opposing enforcers.
Give a clip to the idiot in the other team. Plenty of brainless stuff too but he lifted his team.

Elsom does some fucking stupid shit and its just to do "stupid shit". First game back and he attempts to take out McCaw in his first game back in a year in the first action of the game.

Thats just stupid not inspired.

I'm struggling to see your point Razbra. What's the difference between them? xzxbiggrin

[Razbra]

Im saying idiot on idiot or a little bit of niggle, ya know?

Elsom went out to injure McCaw. Not a known enforcer. In front of the ref and had it come off likely would have been sent from the field. Thats the difference.

Johnson would pick his times well. Off the ball and not usually to inflict injuries, well to the extent a player is stretchered off. Just a reminder to the opposition to keep honest.

[Billy Webb]

Razbra said:

Im saying idiot on idiot or a little bit of niggle, ya know?

Elsom went out to injure McCaw. Not a known enforcer. In front of the ref and had it come off likely would have been sent from the field. Thats the difference.

Johnson would pick his times well. Off the ball and not usually to inflict injuries, well to the extent a player is stretchered off. Just a reminder to the opposition to keep honest.

I get your point Raz - I was just being cheeky.

I think Elsom could learn the skill / distinction.
Depends how he reacts to the added responsibility.

[AussieSpook]

I think Elsom is a great choice. He is no fool and neither is Deans. I remember a few blokes on this forum thinking Mortlock was a dumb ass but then being impressed with his post match speeches. Oz needs a forward as a captain and Rocky ia a logical choice when you consider he is the best in his position in Oz by some margin.

[junior]

Quote

Giteau - I don't know that he has a particular problem with Deans but he comes across as a bit of a princess these days. The mail is that he won't be around for the long haul. He was pretty bitter about not being paid his 3rd party money by a dodgy outfit and that was never guaranteed by the Force. Thus we think he is looking offshore and not necessarily waiting until after the next 2011.

How do you think he's coping with Berrick, and not he, being the star in the Wallaby backline?

[Kirwan]

AussieSpook said:

I think Elsom is a great choice. He is no fool and neither is Deans. I remember a few blokes on this forum thinking Mortlock was a dumb ass but then being impressed with his post match speeches. Oz needs a forward as a captain and Rocky ia a logical choice when you consider he is the best in his position in Oz by some margin.

The difference between the two is Mortlock plays with smarts on the field, Rocky has a history doing some pretty stupid things.

[WS32119]

Kirwan said:

AussieSpook said:

I think Elsom is a great choice. He is no fool and neither is Deans. I remember a few blokes on this forum thinking Mortlock was a dumb ass but then being impressed with his post match speeches. Oz needs a forward as a captain and Rocky ia a logical choice when you consider he is the best in his position in Oz by some margin.

The difference between the two is Mortlock plays with smarts on the field, Rocky has a history doing some pretty stupid things.

Yes.... its a rocky road the australians have chosen...








I'll get my coat

[booboo]

Do that WS.


Do I recall Rocky coming out last week challenging Wobbie on his assertion that the team gave up in Wellington?

Made a bit of a media stir here (i.e., player discontent with the Super Coach etc etc).

I'm wondering if it was staged?