18 replies to this topic

[Nepia]

Before tonights match I must say that I'm a wee bit disappointed with the Hawkes Bay set up this year. As everyone knows I'm extremely pissed with the Berquist situation, to claim the money wasn't available and pick up two more backs after the claim just infuriates me.

But in general it seems as the team have moved away from the ethos of the last couple of years of having a core of HB bred players and fill in the other spots where needed. This year we seem to have a core of out of HB players and fill in the spots with born and breds. Now I'm not stupid enough to not to realise that good recruitment is needed to remain competitive, but aside from Kahn and Perenise it doesn't seem like we've picked up any top notch recruits. How did we not manage to get Taylor or Baker from the Poo? Two players who offer more than a one year contract to prepare for S15 in Rooney, and a Samoan nearly everyone has never heard of. If it was because there money demands were too high then fair enough I guess - but I hope we're not paying Rooney too much for his one year.

When I look at the team I feel they look a bit disjointed and tend to think that they won't have that successful formula of the last couple of years, and that was that they played as a team. The return to the top has been great in that it has promoted home grown talent (Zac, Dagg, Hika, Evans) to the ABs with others (Lowe) going bloody close.

If we don't make the top 7 for next years Mickey Mouse competition I wonder if we will fall back to where we were before and struggle to make that final step into the top rung (the year we do it no doubt the NZRU will have no promotion)? If we are going to go down in flames I'd rather the majority of players were homegrown than a team of imports.

I know it's a long way to go and we haven't even kicked off the season yet, and I hope like hell I'm a 100% wrong - I just have this sense of foreboding for the season ahead.

At any rate GO THE MAGPIES!!!

[Stockcar86]

Not sure about Taylor - after his disciplinary record last year, and the performance last night, I don't think he necessarily offers anything we don't have elsewhere.

I'm happy enough with Kirkpatrick backed up by Horrell at 10. While they don't have the experience currently, I believe that Kirkpatrick has the goods to be everything Berquist is and more. Maybe we can slip Berquist a few brown dollars to miss some kicks to allow HB to take the shield off Auckland later in the season...

I'm nervous about this first game - Canterbury being the only team HB has not beaten in the last four years, but excited too. I think the players have the skills, and Russell has the smarts to allow us to make it to the semis and maybe one step further this year.

Time to crack open a beer, and get ready to start yelling at Matt Stanish....

[Nepia]

Stockcar86 said:

Not sure about Taylor - after his disciplinary record last year, and the performance last night, I don't think he necessarily offers anything we don't have elsewhere.

I'm happy enough with Kirkpatrick backed up by Horrell at 10. While they don't have the experience currently, I believe that Kirkpatrick has the goods to be everything Berquist is and more. Maybe we can slip Berquist a few brown dollars to miss some kicks to allow HB to take the shield off Auckland later in the season...

I'm nervous about this first game - Canterbury being the only team HB has not beaten in the last four years, but excited too. I think the players have the skills, and Russell has the smarts to allow us to make it to the semis and maybe one step further this year.

Time to crack open a beer, and get ready to start yelling at Matt Stanish....

Pretty sure Taylor and Baker can't have been worse than our back three (Guildford included) tonight.

[Stockcar86]

Nepia said:

Pretty sure Taylor and Baker can't have been worse than our back three (Guildford included) tonight.

Well am hoping that 11, 14 and 15 next week will be Guildford, Sinoti and Kaka...

[Nepia]

Stockcar86 said:

Well am hoping that 11, 14 and 15 next week will be Guildford, Sinoti and Kaka...

Has anyone actually seen Sinoti play? Aside from a few clips on Youtube?

[WingerHB]

Jezz, you lads are hard task masters!!! We played poorly yet still drew against a team most are picking to win the comp.

[Higgins]

I'm with you Nepia, I can accept "imports" when local talent is not quite up to the mark but imports for the sake of imports is a little disappointing.

They are my team, they are your team, they are Stockcar86s team and we want "our" guys to play for us whenever possible. Guys that know what the HB rugby team means to us supporters and have that same sort of passion for it bred into them much like we have. A lot of the players we currently have are not initially from the Bay but as they went there and played Club rugby before making the squad they can be called "our" players because they made their names there. To have players like Star Timu and Gillies Kaka put aside for Luke Rooney is taking a lot to accept, especially after the latter's display tonight. I hope that he will have a blinder if somehow he retains his position next week against the Bay of Plenty and contributes to us absolutely slaughtering them to bring back the "The Bay" title to where it belongs. Having said that it would be even better to do it with Gillies Kaka in that jersey as he is one of "us" and won't need to be told about what playing for Hawkes Bay means to us all.

Front row imports are a different story as they are such specialised positions and are not always readily filled and unlike other positions you can't really turn a player from another position into one like you can almost anywhere else.

One thing to ponder on though guys, how would we accept it if HB got relegated because of a locals first selection policy that saw us fielding a team that were easy beats when a team of imported players might have done the trick and kept us in the top grade?

[Nepia]

Higgins said:

I
One thing to ponder on though guys, how would we accept it if HB got relegated because of a locals first selection policy that saw us fielding a team that were easy beats when a team of imported players might have done the trick and kept us in the top grade?

As I said above a few imports are ok (I agree with you about guys who come young and work their way through club rugby not counting as imports*) but the point is we have some quality guys there. I just hope we always have at least 50% homegrown in the team.

* The 5 U19 guys from Canterbury seem to have been a washout really - Jackman hangs around as a solid reserve, Reed out of the squad, Dixon gone to Auckland, I don't know who the other two are?)

[WingerHB]

Nepia said:

* The 5 U19 guys from Canterbury seem to have been a washout really - Jackman hangs around as a solid reserve, Reed out of the squad, Dixon gone to Auckland, I don't know who the other two are?)

I think Will Crutchley and Josh Keys were the others.

[Stockcar86]

WingerHB said:

I think Will Crutchley and Josh Keys were the others.

I thought Crutchley came from Tasman.

[WingerHB]

He went to Tasman after leaving the Bay.

[skaapa]

you are right Stockcar, Crutchley was from Tasman. I think Ryan McLeod was the other guy that came from Canterbury.

Jackman, Keyes, Dixon,Reed and McLeod.

[Stockcar86]

skaapa said:

you are right Stockcar, Crutchley was from Tasman. I think Ryan McLeod was the other guy that came from Canterbury.

Jackman, Keyes, Dixon,Reed and McLeod.

Actually am pretty sure the other U19 player was Leighton Price. I seem to remember they all went to play for Tech (something to do with red and black maybe )

[Stockcar86]

Nepia said:

As I said above a few imports are ok (I agree with you about guys who come young and work their way through club rugby not counting as imports*) but the point is we have some quality guys there. I just hope we always have at least 50% homegrown in the team.

I think that with the good age grade development in HB, there won't be less than 50% local representation in the foreseeable future.

Looking at the recent Magpie AB's, they have all been local lads (Evans, Elliot, Guildford, Dagg).

Prior to the expanded NPC, a problem that HB had was reliance upon local players. I believe in loyalty, but players who were not of the required standard anymore (Mutu Ngarimu as an example) were selected instead of us recruiting a suitable replacement. How much better than him was Grant Webb when he arrived...

HB is always going to lose some good local players who leave to go to the big cities/universities, so I am fine with bringing in imports to make it a two way street. Fotuali'i imported to replace Weepu/Matthewson as an example.

To me it seems that this year HB recruited much more than previously, probably to try to ensure their position in the top 10. They lost Dixon, Taumalolo, Egan ,Waenga, Waldrom, were likely to lose Guildford and Dagg on AB duty, possibly Elliot too. Most of the players they recruited were to cover those positions. I think they wanted to find some players with experience at playing at a higher level, which is why they got players like Rooney, Sinoti, Lealamanu'a and Eugene Smith.

If players like Rooney are not up to it, I think that Russell will not be adverse to giving the Timu's and Kaka's a run, but didn't want to have too many inexperienced players starting, particularly against the Cantabs in the first game.

In summary, I think that HB did need to recruit to cover some holes in the squad - with the top 7 bottom 7 this year, it was not the year to experiment on too many young inexperienced players.

Lets see who gets selected against BoP.

[skaapa]

Stockcar86 said:

Actually am pretty sure the other U19 player was Leighton Price. I seem to remember they all went to play for Tech (something to do with red and black maybe )

Leighton Price is a Taranaki lad. He went to New Plymouth Boys High and played Taranaki U18.

[Stockcar86]

skaapa said:

Leighton Price is a Taranaki lad. He went to New Plymouth Boys High and played Taranaki U18.

Hmm, was it Horrell then?

[skaapa]

Horrell is a Canterbury boy, but he come to HB off his own bat. Ryan McLeod was one of the 5 that went to Tech

[WingerHB]

The Hawke’s Bay Rugby Union has secured some exciting young talent to further boost the depth of talent in the Kelt Capital Magpies representative squad for 2008.

Hawke’s Bay Rugby Union Chief Executive Mike Bishop today announced that loose head Prop, Josh Keys (22), Hooker Ash Dixon (19), Tight head Prop Tom Simpson (22), midfield back Mark Jackman (19) and Loose Forward Hugh Reed (19) all from Canterbury have signed with the Hawke’s Bay Rugby Union for 2008 and 2009.

“Josh, Ash, Mark and Hugh have played national age group rugby in the last two years and Tom is the starting tight head for Canterbury B in 2007.* The all have an excellent pedigree in the game and see Hawke’s Bay as an appropriate vehicle for them to make a mark on the national stage,” Bishop stated today.

Kelt Capital Magpies Forward Coach Tom Coventry has worked with each of the players through his involvement at national age group level and has a high regard for them.

“Not only are they highly promising young players with a real grit and determination that suits our style, they are also well balanced young guys who will add something to our environment,” Coventry said today
*
Ash Dixon was in the World Champion New Zealand Under 19 Team this year along with current Kelt Capital Magpies, Israel Dagg and Zac Guildford.* In addition, Ash, Mark and Hugh have recently been included in the New Zealand Under 20 trials for next year’s World Cup.

All of the players will be linking with the Technical Old Boys Rugby Club for club rugby.

[Nepia]

Cheers WingerHB, that is the article I was looking for - seemingly Horrell has been our best Cantab import, and apparently he just took a punt and turned up.

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Looking at the recent Magpie AB's, they have all been local lads (Evans, Elliot, Guildford, Dagg).

Stockcar, this is kind of my point, we have brought through local talent in the past 3 years and they've looked the goods (you can't tell me after Friday night that Hika is not one of the top 3 hookers in the country). This year we seem to have moved away from that playbook (promote the youngster i.e Zac and Dagg) and have roped in some big name signings (although one is not well known).