62 replies to this topic

[dion]

Ok, so we finally got a Tri nations win under the belt. A big phewww for all of us who's passion is invested in the green and gold. Now for Bloemfontein. What do we take out of Loftus? With the world cup in mind, do we start blooding in form players and youngsters in Bloem. Or do we wait for the end of the year to do this.

After the shocker Bryan Habana had at Loftus, do we do what was previously unthinkeable? Giving the gas man the axe. Do we give Smit and Matfield much needed rest or do we push them for one last Tri Nations match and then rest them for the EOYT.

What team should we put out on Saturday? Our strongest... or do we start experimenting.

By the way, I was at ABSA stadium Friday night for the currie cup match between Sharks and Griquas. I must say, that as this match was not broadcast, the small crowd at the stadium are the worlds only witness to how brilliant the Griquas wing, Bjorn Basson was. Four stunning tries was his personal haul, all of the Griquas tries. I am not suggesting we suddenly give the guy a test cap in Bloemfontein.

But somewhere down the line we have to start giving this youthfull and upcoming talent ... as well as others...an opportunity to show their worth. We need to start developing the enormous depth we have.

Two quick questions.

A.) Can anyone enlighten me as to what the heck has happened to Earl Rose. Its like he's just dropped off the face of the earth

B.) What has happened to several SAFFA fernsters, particularly TB and AK etc. Seems like these guys have joined Earl Rose and disappeared.

Here's my team for Bloemfontein

15. Frans Steyn (After Saturdays howler, consider himself lucky not to be dropped)
14. JP Pieterson
13. Jacques Fourie
12. Juan de Jongh
11. Gio Aplon
10. Morne Steyn
9. Frans Hougard
8. Ryan Kankowski
7. Juan Smit
6. Schalk Burger
locks . Danie Russouw and Flip vd Merwe (Matfield in need of serious rest time)
front row Jannie du Plessis, Chilliboy, Steenkamp (John Smith played from the bench)

[booboo]

I missed the game (wasn't getting up at 1am and my My Star malfunctioned ... at least the operator did!) however based on rep and what I'ev seen this year:

Personally I wouldn't rest Matfield.

You're dumping Spies? One show pony for another though ...

Chilliboy? Really? Firstly is Bismark still injured? And is there noone better?

For Aussie:
Moore should come in for the Thai Ladyboy.

I'd consider Barnes over one of Cooper or Giteau. But as Gits probably gets the nod as goal kicker, and Cooper opffers a point of difference (albeit overrated) he should probably stay.

Have the Wobs picked a better 8 than Brown yet? Higginbotham injured himself in the warm up didn't he? He impresses me and I'd give him a run if he's a 100%.

[Scorz]

Nah Chiliboy made Smit look old and slow when he came on, albeit a knackered Aussie team with no subs backing them up. Retire him.

[dion]

Quote

Chilliboy? Really? Firstly is Bismark still injured? And is there noone better?

As Chilliboy is already in the squad, yes. And yes, because I thaught he had an excellent 20 minutes when he substituted John Smit. Based on that, I would give him a second opportunity to see if he was,nt a one hit wonder. I am no fan of his, but when a player puts up a good show, I think they deserve another opportunity to see if they can sustain the same form.

Bismarck played for the Sharks in the currie cup on Friday night. He is pretty much available.

[Blue]

Olivier, Aplon and Dewald Potgieter called up.

PdV has come out in defense of Habana.

Expect few, if any, changes.

This coaching group does not have the balls to make big calls. They are too fuck scared of trying anything.

Saturday's game was a farce. Like a game of touch. Just a convenient smoothing over of cracks to back up some empty rhetoric (getting better, signs of improvement, better execution, combinations settling, yadda fuckidy doo yah.)

[Blue]

Scorz said:

Nah Chiliboy made Smit look old and slow when he came on, albeit a knackered Aussie team with no subs backing them up. Retire him.

We wish, trust me, we wish.

The fans and media are calling for Bismarck to come back. PdV is giving them the finger.

In any other country, a guy like Battleship would be back in the squad the moment he proves fitness. He's a bloody machine.

[WS32119]

I'm starting to think again about my desire to see Smit and Matfield retired/dropped. Perhaps they are keeping their powder dry for the big show next year.

They are not that old and if they can hit top form next year it could be a fairytale ending for them in NZ. Consider that Brad thorn is what... 64? Hes playing great.

And of course the boks are missing their best player in FDP who should be back to direct proceedings.

They did show in that gainst NZ they had the match won until the last 2 minutes in spite of being knackered and missing some players.

[DMX]

Blue said:

We wish, trust me, we wish.

The fans and media are calling for Bismarck to come back. PdV is giving them the finger.

In any other country, a guy like Battleship would be back in the squad the moment he proves fitness. He's a bloody machine.

Same fans and media who were crying for Steyn a few week s ago. Coach is fickle fans fickle and media fickle in that case.

I would bring Aplon at 15 give Habana a chance to redeem himself. You have to give Chilliboy a shot I think it will help mobility of scrum also bring back beast , if you want to have Smit on give him a run at tighthead with Bismark on the bench. I would think there is no point in carrying Januarie and further aren't there some other decent 9s?

[dion]

Quote

Same fans and media who were crying for Steyn a few week s ago. Coach is fickle fans fickle and media fickle in that case.

Disagree with the fickle fans remark. I was one of the people calling for Steyns inclusion on the home leg. After the "club verse country" fiasco, especially after missing the AB match... my feeling was lets just get on with it based on what we got. After the good showing by Aplon in Soweto, my feeling was that he had pretty much cemented his place at number 15. Thus when Steyn came back, I wanted him on the bench, and Aplon to retain his place unless someone else has proved they are performing better than the incumbent.

Steyn has,nt done it. And particular after the AB awol, Steyn had given another player a chance to stake a claim on the number 15 jersey, which Aplon did with both hands.

[Blue]

DMX said:

Same fans and media who were crying for Steyn a few week s ago. Coach is fickle fans fickle and media fickle in that case.

I would bring Aplon at 15 give Habana a chance to redeem himself. You have to give Chilliboy a shot I think it will help mobility of scrum also bring back beast , if you want to have Smit on give him a run at tighthead with Bismark on the bench. I would think there is no point in carrying Januarie and further aren't there some other decent 9s?

Don't know which fans you refer to. I saw a load of people first pissed off about Kirchner getting a raw deal and then Aplon.

Aplon should have kept his spot after the All Black test and most people I know share that view.

[Blue]

Now Pieter de Villiers passes the buck. This guys is a pussy and incapable of taking risk and making tough calls. Now he claims that he keeps playing the senior players to give the fans value for money. This is the same guy who bitches about them playing too much.

Complete cop out. We really are fucked with this guy in charge.

http://www.superspor...value_for_money

[Blue]

WS32119 said:

I'm starting to think again about my desire to see Smit and Matfield retired/dropped. Perhaps they are keeping their powder dry for the big show next year.

They are not that old and if they can hit top form next year it could be a fairytale ending for them in NZ. Consider that Brad thorn is what... 64? Hes playing great.

And of course the boks are missing their best player in FDP who should be back to direct proceedings.

They did show in that gainst NZ they had the match won until the last 2 minutes in spite of being knackered and missing some players.

You cannot seriously think Matfield's contribution to be as poor as Smit's?

[Kirwan]

Watched an interesting interview with Smit and he's been driven (and he said some of the other senior players are too) by being the first team to win back to back WCs, Smit ain't going anywhere unless he gets dropped.

And WS32119, I hope your coach thinks the same as you and makes very few changes. Be great if you creak into next year with all these older players that are out of form and play them again, but one year older. You should have a look at the All Blacks 1991 campaign and see how that approach worked for us.

[dingo]

DMX said:

You have to give Chilliboy a shot I think it will help mobility of scrum also bring back beast , if you want to have Smit on give him a run at tighthead with Bismark on the bench. ?

I think this is a brilliant idea. Play Smit at prop and Chilliboy at hooker against the convicts. Both scrums will then be fairly evenly matched meaning both Coaches think the current make-up is a viable option for next year.

[DMX]

Blue said:

Don't know which fans you refer to. I saw a load of people first pissed off about Kirchner getting a raw deal and then Aplon.

Aplon should have kept his spot after the All Black test and most people I know share that view.

Which raw deal did Kirchner get? I thought he got injured. I saw a lot of NZers saying he played well and Steyn would make little difference but a lot of Saffers were asking PDV to kiss and make up with Steyn. I agree plenty seemed to want Aplon to get another run but before there defo was a lot of support to have Steyn replace Kirchner. But you are right PDV did not have guts to make tough calls but I have seen a lot of flip-flopping over a lot of players on Saffa sites and papers.

[WS32119]

Kirwan said:

Watched an interesting interview with Smit and he's been driven (and he said some of the other senior players are too) by being the first team to win back to back WCs, Smit ain't going anywhere unless he gets dropped.

And WS32119, I hope your coach thinks the same as you and makes very few changes. Be great if you creak into next year with all these older players that are out of form and play them again, but one year older. You should have a look at the All Blacks 1991 campaign and see how that approach worked for us.

Luckily you are not the word on how things pan out. Read what I said about keeping the powder dry, actually you are just confirming the point I'm making by saying Smit is driven by the desire to win back to back world cups.

As for your team that was too old by the 91 world cup - was that the same young team that everyone was raving about winning the 1st world cup? You know, the one that was not the same as the one that got flattened by the boks in the "cavalier" series?

[WS32119]

Blue said:

You cannot seriously think Matfield's contribution to be as poor as Smit's?

You have not been paying attention if you think Matfield is playing well. Take off the blue glasses

[Blue]

DMX said:

Which raw deal did Kirchner get? I thought he got injured. I saw a lot of NZers saying he played well and Steyn would make little difference but a lot of Saffers were asking PDV to kiss and make up with Steyn. I agree plenty seemed to want Aplon to get another run but before there defo was a lot of support to have Steyn replace Kirchner. But you are right PDV did not have guts to make tough calls but I have seen a lot of flip-flopping over a lot of players on Saffa sites and papers.

Kirchner recovered in time to play last weekend but was overlooked for Steyn.

He could have played against Australia. But this obsession with Steyn took hold of everybody.

[DMX]

Blue said:

Kirchner recovered in time to play last weekend but was overlooked for Steyn.

He could have played against Australia. But this obsession with Steyn took hold of everybody.

That was my point. It seemed at one point he was questioning Steyn's fitness and commitment but then succumbed to popular opinion even if it was a few weeks late.

[taniwharugby]

WS32119 said:

Luckily you are not the word on how things pan out. Read what I said about keeping the powder dry, actually you are just confirming the point I'm making by saying Smit is driven by the desire to win back to back world cups.

As for your team that was too old by the 91 world cup - was that the same young team that everyone was raving about winning the 1st world cup? You know, the one that was not the same as the one that got flattened by the boks in the "cavalier" series?

so you are saying Smit is playing poorly to conserve himself for a full on assault next year?

[WS32119]

taniwharugby said:

so you are saying Smit is playing poorly to conserve himself for a full on assault next year?

No. I'm saying his focus is on the wc next year therefore not in top form or hungry enough right now. A shame and not fair to the fans but if he's going anyway this is the only way I can accept it. If the boks don't do well then he has let himself and the country down. I hope he knows what he is doing.

[taniwharugby]

if that is true, then it is not only a shame for the Bok jersey, but a shame for rugby in general as the focus on the RWC is unhealthy for the sport.

I personally cant see a Bok player not giving 100% of his heart and soul and leaving blood on the dancefloor in a bid to win a game, I'd feel the same if it were McCaw.

You could argue he has more pressure on him than Smit, he has to do what so many great AB's have failed to do in the past 20 years, win a RWC, sure Smit may be eyeing a back to back win, which will create history, but if there is pressure anywhere, it sits on Richgies shoulders, right or wrong.

[Blue]

WS32119 said:

No. I'm saying his focus is on the wc next year therefore not in top form or hungry enough right now. A shame and not fair to the fans but if he's going anyway this is the only way I can accept it. If the boks don't do well then he has let himself and the country down. I hope he knows what he is doing.

If that is the case he has no business being in a green jersey let alone as captain.

John Smit is starting to look like the sports professional who can't see the writing on the wall and pack it in.

Some players just know it and and end their careers on a high.

[rustycruiser]

WS32119 said:

No. I'm saying his focus is on the wc next year therefore not in top form or hungry enough right now. A shame and not fair to the fans but if he's going anyway this is the only way I can accept it. If the boks don't do well then he has let himself and the country down. I hope he knows what he is doing.

Poppycock! After seeing John Smit's reaction and emotion at the end of the Soweto Test vs New Zealand, I have a hard time believing he is "not hungry enough". The expression on his face while kneeling on the field after the Dagg try was pure devistation. The man gave it his all, and was broken. Probably because deep down he knows that his all is not what it was 3-4 years ago. There is zero chance that he is sandbagging it.

[Watu]

WS32119 said:

As for your team that was too old by the 91 world cup - was that the same young team that everyone was raving about winning the 1st world cup? You know, the one that was not the same as the one that got flattened by the boks in the "cavalier" series?

For sure, the 1987 world cup winners certainly couldnt hold a candle to the mighty Boks of 2007 that conquered the combined might of England, Argentina and Fiji....

[rustycruiser]

[mimic]

Wheres the photo of him and Nonus boot? LOL

[Sambo]

WS32119 said:

Luckily you are not the word on how things pan out. Read what I said about keeping the powder dry, actually you are just confirming the point I'm making by saying Smit is driven by the desire to win back to back world cups.

As for your team that was too old by the 91 world cup - was that the same young team that everyone was raving about winning the 1st world cup? You know, the one that was not the same as the one that got flattened by the boks in the "cavalier" series?

massively long bow to try and compare the playing teams from the cavaliers and the AB WC 87 team. Not to mention different coach. A bit delusional there.

[WS32119]

rustycruiser said:

Poppycock! After seeing John Smit's reaction and emotion at the end of the Soweto Test vs New Zealand, I have a hard time believing he is "not hungry enough". The expression on his face while kneeling on the field after the Dagg try was pure devistation. The man gave it his all, and was broken. Probably because deep down he knows that his all is not what it was 3-4 years ago. There is zero chance that he is sandbagging it.

I think he has more integrity than that. If what you say is true I expect him to retire from international rugby after this season. Also, its possible to be devastated even if you are not in great shape. Great motivator to get in top shape for next year.

[WS32119]

Sambo said:

massively long bow to try and compare the playing teams from the cavaliers and the AB WC 87 team. Not to mention different coach. A bit delusional there.

whoooosh