63 replies to this topic

[sparky]

Scotland squad:
Backs: J Ansbro (London Irish), M Blair (Edinburgh), C Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), S Danielli (Ulster), N De Luca (Edinburgh), M Evans (Castres), S Hogg, R Jackson (both Glasgow Warriors), L Jones, G Laidlaw (both Edinburgh), R Lamont (Glasgow Warriors), S Lamont (Scarlets), R Lawson (Gloucester), G Morrison (Glasgow Warriors), D Parks (Cardiff Blues), S Shingler (London Irish) and D Weir (Glasgow Warriors)
Forwards: J Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), K Brown (Saracens), G Cross, D Denton (both Edinburgh Rugby), A Dickinson (Sale Sharks), R Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), R Gray, D Hall (both Glasgow Warriors), J Hamilton (Gloucester), R Harley (Glasgow Warriors), A Jacobsen (Edinburgh), A Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), S Lawson (Gloucester), M Low (Glasgow Warriors), F McKenzie (Sale Sharks), E Murray (Newcastle Falcons), R Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby), A Strokosch (Gloucester) and R Vernon (Sale Sharks).

The veterans Paterson and Hines have retired. There are six uncapped players: Edinburgh wing Lee Jones, 19-year-old full-back Stuart Hogg, 1st 5 Duncan Weir and Flanker Robert Harley all from Glasgow, Sale Sharks' flanker/lock Fraser McKenzie and 20-year-old London Irish centre Steven Shingler. Shingler is a surprise selection. He was born in Swansea, joined London Irish from the Scarlets, played for Wales in the 2011 Under 20 World Cup and qualifies for Scotland through his Scottish-born mother.

Edited by sparky, 06 January 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[taffyjoe]

My Scottish friends tell me Hogg is a serious talent, so one to watch.

In other news Wales are challanging Shingler's call up (having just lopst out on Ben Morgan too)

http://news.bbc.co.u...on/16419741.stm

Based on the highly spurious rules about representing the countries 'second most senior team'. As Wales don't have a A side thats our under 20's., apparently France have nominated their u20's as the same (rather than their A side, which was active in the 2010 churchill cup?).

Still, Shingler is not lily to get a Wales call up in the immediate future (especially after getting sent off against the Blues)


Still, that squad doesn't look to bad.

France look strong.
Forwards: Fabien Barcella (Biarritz), Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Luc Ducalcon (Castres), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse), William Servat (Toulouse), Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Francais), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Romain Millo-Chluski (Toulouse), Pascal Pape (Stade Francais), Julien Pierre (Clermont), Imanol Harinordoquy (Biarritz), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, capt), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), Julien Bonnaire (Clermont)
Backs: Morgan Parra (Clermont), Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz), Lionel Beauxis (Toulouse), Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), Yann David (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Maxime Mermoz (Perpignan), Aurelien Rougerie (Clermont), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse), Julien Malzieu (Clermont), Alexis Palisson (Toulon), Maxime Medard (Toulouse), Clement Poitrenaud (Toulouse).

[sparky]

I'm surprised that Saint-Andre has axed Lionel Nallet from the French squad.

[taffyjoe]

Didn't Nallet retire? Or did I dream that?

If he didn't it may be representing a clean break with the past and all that. Plus they have some talented young locks coming through, like Yoann Maestri (Toulouse).

[sparky]

Toby Flood has injured his knee and will be out for 4 to 6 weeks. He will definitely miss England's opening game Vs Scotland. Wilko has retired from international rugby so England will be without their two RWC number 10s

It's time for England to take a brave decision and pick the talented 20-year old Owen Farrell at 10. The other option is his Saracens team mate Charlie Hodgson.

[antipodean]

As long as England don't pick Tindall and Easter they'll be immeasurably better.

[bartkiwi]

I actually rate Easter, think he brings alot. Tindall yes they need to move forward

[antipodean]

If Easter was a blindside, perhaps - but even then England have some quality there lining up. He really is too slow to play Tests from the back of the scrum IMO.

[SimonAdd]

sparky said:

Toby Flood has injured his knee and will be out for 4 to 6 weeks. He will definitely miss England's opening game Vs Scotland. Wilko has retired from international rugby so England will be without their two RWC number 10s

It's time for England to take a brave decision and pick the talented 20-year old Owen Farrell at 10. The other option is his Saracens team mate Charlie Hodgson.

For all the hype around Farrell I'm not sure he's good enough for England at this point. He's shown great composure in his young career but he lacks a running game and he's weak defensively. I'd pick Tigers' Billy Twelvetrees ahead of him at 12 and Hodgson ahead of him at 10, assuming Flood won't be fit (although the man himself has said he thinks the injury is not as bad as originally feared, and he may well be okay for Scotland).

[Bones]

That young guy Goode is looking rather decent off the bench for Worcester...

[sparky]

SimonAdd said:

For all the hype around Farrell I'm not sure he's good enough for England at this point. He's shown great composure in his young career but he lacks a running game and he's weak defensively. I'd pick Tigers' Billy Twelvetrees ahead of him at 12 and Hodgson ahead of him at 10, assuming Flood won't be fit (although the man himself has said he thinks the injury is not as bad as originally feared, and he may well be okay for Scotland).

I agree he lacks a running game, although if England wanted a running 10 they'd pick Cipriani and overlook all the other things wrong with him. But I think Farrell is defensively outstanding for a guy of 20.

[SimonAdd]

sparky said:

I agree he lacks a running game, although if England wanted a running 10 they'd pick Cipriani and overlook all the other things wrong with him. But I think Farrell is defensively outstanding for a guy of 20.

He's heading up the missed tackle count in the Aviva Premiership, apparently (although I can't find a source on this). He's certainly an aggressive tackler but he does have a tendancy to get out of position and miss tackles.

I just think Twelvetrees offers offers everything Farrell does at 12, but with the added pace and size that makes him more of a running threat. I don't think Farrell is ready to start at 10 for England, particularly as the rest of the backline is likely to have a very callow look.

I'd have Farrell in the squad though, and play him off the bench a couple of times to see how he does.

[Luigi]

Lancaster has ditched the pre-6N training camp in the Algarve for a week at West Park RFC in Leeds. His rationale is that it will be cold, wet and windy for the 6N opener in Scotland, so why not train for those conditions?

Me Like.

[SimonAdd]

Quote

England's 32-man Elite Player Squad for the Six Nations Championship:

Forwards: M Botha (Saracens), C Clark (Northampton Saints), A Corbisiero (London Irish), D Cole (Leicester Tigers), T Croft (Leicester Tigers), L Deacon (Leicester Tigers), P Dowson (Northampton Saints), D Hartley (Northampton Saints), C Lawes (Northampton Saints), J Marler (Harlequins), L Mears (Bath Rugby), B Morgan (Scarlets), T Palmer (Stade Francais), C Robshaw (Harlequins), M Stevens (Saracens), R Webber (London Wasps), D Wilson (Bath Rugby), T Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs: C Ashton (Northampton Saints), B Barritt (Saracens), M Brown (Harlequins), L Dickson (Northampton Saints), O Farrell (Saracens), T Flood (Leicester Tigers), B Foden (Northampton Saints), C Hodgson (Saracens), J Simpson (London Wasps), C Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), J Turner-Hall (Harlequins), B Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Plus players providing temporary injury cover: D Attwood, G Parling, Alex Goode, H Trinder

Only 3 wings, including Sharples, who's gone backwards in form since last year, and Strettle, who's having a dry patch try-wise. No Twelvetrees but both Barritt and Turner-Hall? Bad calls for me.

Otherwise it has the expected youthful look and hopefully can play some good rugby.

[taffyjoe]

Looks like a more mobile pack that could generate some quick ball and get a more balanced backline playing.

Pretty raw though, especially as the first game is Scotland in Murryfield, it could be a bit of a struggle if someof those guys (e.g. Robshaw or Wood) don't step up to international level.

[SimonAdd]

taffyjoe said:

Looks like a more mobile pack that could generate some quick ball and get a more balanced backline playing.

Pretty raw though, especially as the first game is Scotland in Murryfield, it could be a bit of a struggle if someof those guys (e.g. Robshaw or Wood) don't step up to international level.

Agreed, Murrayfield isn't really the place you want a bunch of 20 year olds throwing the ball around on their first caps.

It's the injuries that worry me: Lawes, Deacon, Flood and Tuilagi are all likely to be missing for the first game, and it's those sort of guys we would have been looking to for leadership. I expect Lancaster to go with the Saracens midfield combination of Hodgson (10), Barritt (12) and Farrell (13) until Flood and Tuilagi are back, but I have no idea who he'll pick in the engine room.

[taffyjoe]

SimonAdd said:

Agreed, Murrayfield isn't really the place you want a bunch of 20 year olds throwing the ball around on their first caps.

It's the injuries that worry me: Lawes, Deacon, Flood and Tuilagi are all likely to be missing for the first game, and it's those sort of guys we would have been looking to for leadership. I expect Lancaster to go with the Saracens midfield combination of Hodgson (10), Barritt (12) and Farrell (13) until Flood and Tuilagi are back, but I have no idea who he'll pick in the engine room.

That midfield looks lightweight - althought scotland havn't been much shakes in the backs for sometime, they'll be running big lumps (morrison et al.) down your throat all afternoon (when parks isn't kicking the leather off the ball - damm him). Hope that your backrow can cover.

Still, its good to see some new faces rather than the sad old failures. Hopefully some of the guys will not look out of place and form a core of players with those coming back from injury. You have France away, that could get messy if France start to click and England struggle.

[Luigi]

Jeez, anyone remember Alan Hansen saying, "You don't win anything with kids" prior to Man United proving that's exactly what you do with kids?

In England we have a fixation with 'experience'. It's why we continually trot out the same old group of players until finally they decide enough is enough and announce their retirement. This is why we took Wilkinson, Thompson, Shaw, Moody and Tindall to the RWC and that is why we were so shit. England is an old boys club. Once you are in and have gained enough 'experience' then you're there until you decide otherwise. It stinks. The media promotes it too because they are all ex-players and are vain enough to think 'experience' outweighs everything else.

Bollocks to it all I say. We should not be scared of Scotland and we should not be scared of putting in new players against them.

I don't even care if we lose (although I prefer if we didn't) because it's only Scotland and it would be an insignificant result in the overall scheme of things. So playing an experimental side against the Sweaties would suit me fine. In fact, the whole 6N can be an experiment as far as I'm concerned because the more important games for England is the summer tour to SA and the Autumn Internationals against the SH.

Lets face it, England were the 2011 6N Champions and that barely-remembered fact counted for shit when it came to the RWC. So lets not start getting all stressed about this campaign. It's time to let the 'kids' strut their stuff.

Edited by Luigi, 12 January 2012 - 06:05 AM.

[Luigi]

taffyjoe said:

That midfield looks lightweight - althought scotland havn't been much shakes in the backs for sometime, they'll be running big lumps (morrison et al.) down your throat all afternoon (when parks isn't kicking the leather off the ball - damm him). Hope that your backrow can cover.

Still, its good to see some new faces rather than the sad old failures. Hopefully some of the guys will not look out of place and form a core of players with those coming back from injury. You have France away, that could get messy if France start to click and England struggle.

TJ: Do you think that backrow can cover better than Moody, Easter and Croft?

I think Wood, Robshaw and Croft will be demonstrably better.

[SimonAdd]

No problem with youngsters being there, Lu, I just think he's picked the wrong youngsters. Talk before the squad announcement was of having a playmaker at 12 yet he goes and selects both Barritt and Turner-Hall, two crash'em bash'em ICs who have never looked international class. Callum Clark, Mouritz Botha and Rob Webber? Who was calling for their inclusion in the squad? They're journeyman players and I don't buy that we don't have better promising young things in the Premiership.

[Bones]

SimonAdd said:

Only 3 wings, including Sharples, who's gone backwards in form since last year, and Strettle, who's having a dry patch try-wise. No Twelvetrees but both Barritt and Turner-Hall? Bad calls for me.

Otherwise it has the expected youthful look and hopefully can play some good rugby.

Ashton, Brown, Foden, Sharples and Strettle seems like plenty to cover the back 3 to me when you only have 8 other backs to cover the other 4 positions (2 of which are very specialist).

[taffyjoe]

Luigi said:

TJ: Do you think that backrow can cover better than Moody, Easter and Croft?

I think Wood, Robshaw and Croft will be demonstrably better.

On the basis that Moody has been (semi) crocked for a long time Wood, Robshaw and Croft should be better, but it looses grunt and ball carrying without Easter, although I wouldn't have him anywhere near the team if it was him who made the "35 grand out the window remark". Having said that, it would be far better around the breakdown, and as you suggest, cover an inexperienced backline better, and provide more support.

I'm not sure about Robshaw though, not at international level, and arn't Wood and Robshaw pretty simnilar players. Pity England don't seem to have an out and out 7 knocking around (ignoring fatty Armitage).

[SimonAdd]

Tom Wood is having a scan for a foot injury and may well be out for the Scotland game. I think the backrow will likely be: 6) Croft, 7) Robshaw, 8) Morgan.

[taffyjoe]

Wales Squad:

Backs: Mike PHILLIPS, Lloyd WILLIAMS, Rhys WEBB, Rhys PRIESTLAND, James HOOK, Jamie ROBERTS, Jonathan DAVIES, Scott WILLIAMS, Gavin HENSON, Ashley BECK, George NORTH, Leigh HALFPENNY, Alex CUTHBERT, Harry ROBINSON, Liam WILLIAMS, Lee BYRNE

Forwards: Craig MITCHELL, Adam JONES, Ryan BEVINGTON, Gethin JENKINS, Paul JAMES, Rhys GILL, Rhodri JONES, Matthew REES, Huw BENNETT, Ken OWENS, Bradley DAVIES, Ian EVANS, Lou REED, Ryan JONES, Dan LYDIATE, Sam WARBURTON ©, Justin TIPURIC, Toby FALETAU, Andy POWELL

6 new caps, and one G.Henson back in the squad, the ideal line-up of 12-Henson 13-Jamie Roberts will probably not happen, as usual, due to injuries. Likewise the front row is doomed (A.Jones, M.Rees, G.Jenkins).

We have 1 second row who been off the boil for a while, a perma crock who can't play more than 50-60 minites, a young and slightly light weight newcomer and a converted back row whos too short to play second row. So the lineout is more doomed than normal (non of the hookers can throw straight anyway, so it wont matter).

We also have a shortage of wings - North and Halfpenny are both good and young, but halfpenny should be playing at 15, leaving a gap.

Big test for wales to keep improving after the world cup, especially with Ireland first up in Dublin, although they've gone for their usual suspects with little new blood, so we know what to expect from there. Can Gatland get the backline moving again? and will we go back to slow ball, pick and drive down the blindside as the main attacking thrust?

This years 6 nations is possibly the most interesting in years, just in the situation of England's new start, a new French Coach and an evolving Wales and Scotland. I wonder about Ireland at the moment, I can't decide whether this generation are done or not, guess we'll see.

[Cormac]

Ireland have announced two training panels. Some members of the Ireland Wolfhounds squad will join the senior squad after they play England Saxons on the 28th Jan.

Senior squad:
Props: Cian Healy, Mike Ross (both Leinster), Tom Court (Ulster)
Hookers: Rory Best (Ulster), Sean Cronin (Leinster)
Locks: Leo Cullen (Leinster), Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan (all Munster)
Back-row: Stephen Ferris (Ulster), Jamie Heaslip, Shane Jennings, Sean O'Brien (all Leinster)
SH: Conor Murray (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster)
FH: Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Johnny Sexton (Leinster)
3/4's: Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster), Fergus McFadden (Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ulster), Paddy Wallace (Ulster)
FB: Rob Kearney (Leinster)

Ireland Wolfhounds

Props: Stephen Archer (Munster), Ronan Loughney (Connacht), Brett Wilkinson (Connacht)
Hookers: Mike Sherry, Damien Varley (both Munster)
Locks: Mike McCarthy (Connacht), Devin Toner (Leinster), Dan Tuohy (Ulster)
Back-row: Chris Henry (Ulster), Kevin McLaughlin (Leinster), John Muldoon (Connacht), Rhys Ruddock (Leinster)
SH: Isaac Boss (Leinster), Tomas O'Leary (Munster)
FH: Ian Keatley (Munster), Ian Madigan (Leinster)
3/4's: Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Nevin Spence (Ulster), Dave Kearney (Leinster), Eoin O'Malley (Leinster)

Additional players in senior squad (there to hold tackle bags and get experience): Paddy McAllister (Ulster), Ian Nagle (Munster), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), Tiernan O'Halloran (Connacht), Andrew Conway (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster)
FB: Gavin Duffy (Connacht), Denis Hurley (Munster)

[bartkiwi]

Cormac it was on radio all day that L Cullen will be unavail due to a planned op then he is picked...?
Luke Fitz has been playing well ( of what I have seen, looks to have confidence back- he is my future 12 pick. I like a stepper there somewhere and Ireland struggling to break line there)
Earls needs to do something internationally, Paddy Wallace needs to continue whatever he's doing as he keeps being selected.
This will be a entertaining 6 nations i reckon, my pick is that the winner will be Wales or Ireland.....or France lol

[NH Fan]

taffyjoe said:

....Big test for wales to keep improving after the world cup, especially with Ireland first up in Dublin, although they've gone for their usual suspects with little new blood, so we know what to expect from there....

This years 6 nations is possibly the most interesting in years, just in the situation of England's new start, a new French Coach and an evolving Wales and Scotland. I wonder about Ireland at the moment, I can't decide whether this generation are done or not, guess we'll see.

Which 'this generation' are you referring to, TJ?

There's a good few players in the squad under 30 caps. Only Best, O'Connell, and Darcy are likely to start of the "older/experienced" generation.

[Zader]

Without BOD that squad looks pretty thin, very little depth besides back row & out-half.

Denis Leamy has fallen off the radar completely, I don't think he's injured - he simply hasn't been playing well enough.

I like Denis Hurley, he has a really good off-loading in the tackle skill, just lacks a bit of pace - I'd like to see him get a chance at senior level though.

[bartkiwi]

Leamy out injuried there is a log jam in the loosies so he can be covered more than adequately.
McFadden (Fergus not Brian) should play at 13, not seen him much myself but he solid enough and does basics well, Earls not a international 13, Paddy Wallace only a fill in 12, Other option is Bowe he was excellent 3rd Lions test at 13 but can't see Kidney trying anything out of ordinary.

Zader Hurley is like a rugby league fullback to me- runs ball back hard into contact may not have pace for test rugby.

[mushtaq]

Can someone do a rough "ins and outs" list for each team from either last year's 6 nations or just since the World Cup - just to get a better look at who has gained/lost the most. Cheers!