Dear Joe

[Luigi]

Dear Joe Worsley

Joe, you've been a fantastic servant for England, but to be honest I really wish you were injured. Ordinarily a little ligament tear would suffice or maybe a dead leg, however that would only keep you out for a short while and what we really need right now is something more career-ending. Best of all would be for you to announce your international retirement - but I know you won't do that, not while Martin keeps throwing you these juicy bones.

The fact is mate, you're not the future of English rugby anymore and we need to move on. There has to be another fresher, more dynamic option available and if there isn't - there bloody well should be. Either way putting an old stager like you in there against the Scots is a retrograde step. And to be honest you're only taking the field because you're part of MJ's security blanket - one of his old comrades in arms and that isn't a good enough reason.

So, I'm actually hoping that you rupture a cruciate or something. I know it's a terrible thing to wish for but unless someone with real vision takes over the running of England that's what it's come to. Don't feel picked on either. I'm quietly praying that Johnny dislocates a shoulder and Thommo develops chronic gout. It's not just an issue with you older guys either. Louis Deacon could do with a detached retina maybe (although he'd actually have to hit a ruck to cop something as bad as that).

But we have to start somewhere and I'm afraid it's you. The good news is that there's still a bit of time between now and Saturday for you to twist something or fall awkwardly. Nobody will think any less of you if you do the noble thing here so please, for the sake of English rugby, break a leg.

Luigi

[da_grubster]

must admit i raised an eyebrow when I saw him being recalled. Surely, English rugby can produce someone so they dont have to keep continually going back to these guys ??

[WS32119]

Thing is - who else is there? Its all good and well to hope that these players get injured (not) but then what? Lose by 50 intead of 10?
Its not the English way to rebuild from scratch, rather play the underdog status and remember back to the glory days of 2003. That should be good for 50 years?

[Luigi]

I feel the situation needs to be forced though.

We aren't good at blooding new players and when we do we don't give them enough time in the shirt to develop. Inevitably, we revert to the tried and tested because we prize 'experience' more than anything.

I'm not that bothered about losing to the Scots. I know it will mean a lot to them but for me it would be worth a giveaway just to give the miserable whingeing pricks a false perspective of their place in the scheme of things. With that in mind, I'd try something new. Why start a lumpen Deacon in the second row when you have Lawes available? Why persist with Wilko when Flood, Geraghty or even Cipriani are waiting for a chance? As for Worsley - if he was injured we wouldn't have a choice but to start someone else. FFS, Moody's on the bench!

[WS32119]

I feel the situation needs to be forced though.

We aren't good at blooding new players and when we do we don't give them enough time in the shirt to develop. Inevitably, we revert to the tried and tested because we prize 'experience' more than anything.

I'm not that bothered about losing to the Scots. I know it will mean a lot to them but for me it would be worth a giveaway just to give the miserable whingeing pricks a false perspective of their place in the scheme of things. With that in mind, I'd try something new. Why start a lumpen Deacon in the second row when you have Lawes available? Why persist with Wilko when Flood, Geraghty or even Cipriani are waiting for a chance? As for Worsley - if he was injured we wouldn't have a choice but to start someone else. FFS, Moody's on the bench!

Might I suggest that the average english supporter would rather watch their heroes from 7 or 8 years ago lose "honorably" than watch a new crop get smashed by all and sundry? Martin is just playing to type, he has become one of the old farts

I do feel for you though....... no, I cant lie. I'm loving it. Its bloody fantastic. On second thoughts, even England being humiliated on a regular basis has become boring.

Carry on.

[Dodge]

Armitage should be starting at 7, he's easily in the best form of any of the 7s in England at the moment and I think has a decent chance of becoming a very good international 7. I'm really disappointed that they've gone back to Worsley. Totally agree that we should have picked someone else instead of Deacon too, although Lawes has been playing blindside for Northampton and not terribly well.

Overall, I'm in favour of picking the best XV players on the park and some youngsters on the bench to bring on as impact players, by and large I think Johnson has done that this year with the odd exception. To me, its a combination of a lack of real top draw talent and a lack of any cohesion in the coaching set up. I really don't know how many times Wells and Ford need to prove they're not good enough before we get rid of them but bugger me if I haven't been saying it for five years.

[BartMan]

Hope nothing bad happens to you Luigi. I prefer England strong though (but not 2003 strong), so on the EOYT you know its a real test match against the Poms, not the exhibitions matches we have been putting on in the last few years...

SO good luck on the bad luck wishes.

Is it true that Brioan Moore was coming out of retirement in case the gout did strike Tommo...? And I heard Jason Leonard was pounding the streets ready for the recall too...

[Dodge]

nah, Brian Moore has jumped the fence and has just qualified as a referee. His first performance was mistake free apparently, all 2 minutes and 30 seconds of it until he tore his hamstring. Fair play to the guy though, apparently he was giving a ref grief on a forum (I assume he's still on Planet Rugby?) and someone told him to put his money where his mouth was if he thought it was so easy, so he did...

[BartMan]

I saw that Dodge on the rugby channel here in NZ - had a chuckle. Good on him though, hard bloody work reffing!

[Paj]

Serious question: Is the lack of talent coming through a result of overseas players at the end of their careers taking a position of an up and coming talent at club level?

[Baron Silas Greenback]

I think there is plenty of young talent, but it gets coached out fo them by club coaches that want results, not improvement. Young guys get trained to be good GP players, not good rugby players. The current U18 England team are VERY good, but they will all become bulked up drones in the GP.

[FredDagg1979]

Serious question: Is the lack of talent coming through a result of overseas players at the end of their careers taking a position of an up and coming talent at club level?

Foreign imports suppressing the standard of the English national team? I've heard that somewhere before.

[Duluth]

I think there is plenty of young talent, but it gets coached out fo them by club coaches that want results, not improvement. Young guys get trained to be good GP players, not good rugby players. The current U18 England team are VERY good, but they will all become bulked up drones in the GP.

Yup

I remember 2-3 years ago I really rated some of the young players coming through. Most of these guys are still starters for their clubs but they haven't kicked on.
It must be a systematic problem but I don't think it's as simple as blaming the foriegn imports. On any weekend there is still a considerable number of English qualified players playing in the GP

[BartMan]

a few seasons ago I seem to recall, with Carlos and Jackson, Hill, Mehrtens, Evans and co over there of the ten (is it ten) prem sides, there were only two Pom eligible first fives playing on a certain weekend. Somthing mad like that anyway.

[Duluth]

yeah flyhalf did have the most foriegners but even with five foriegners there's still seven poms running around in the GP

Flyhalf is a position where they had young talent and it has regressed.

[BartMan]

think there was evern perhaps a couple of Aussies and an Argie too - in the last five years anyway, been a while since Mehrts was there - with Harlequins I think.

[Duluth]

There's been loads..

But the players I'm thinking of who appeared to have potential to be good Test players have been starters at their clubs for years now and haven't kicked on.

It's not simply an issue of too many foriegners blocking their way.. for some reason the English system doesn't take naturally talented guys and turn them into world class Test players

[Degz]

Let's face it, these NEQ filling up spots will probably be picked after qualifying on residency after three years.....

[The Eagle]

I think there is plenty of young talent, but it gets coached out fo them by club coaches that want results, not improvement. Young guys get trained to be good GP players, not good rugby players. The current U18 England team are VERY good, but they will all become bulked up drones in the GP.

Baron hits it on the head. We are very good at U18 and U21 with guys playing heads up rugby at pace. They get a club contract and put on muscle to survive the wear and tear of the GP, but at the expense of line speed in the backs and dynamism in the forwards. It is conservatism of the worst sort and until they change the format and structure of our club rugby season we will not be able to compete consistently at the top level of international rugby.

The impact of foreign imports is difficult to judge. Yes there is a sense that too many of the GP 10 slots are taken by non-English players, but at the same time these same players are helping set standards and develop youngsters at the clubs.

The Scotland match was a classic case of our front 5 failing again to boss the set piece and all 8 of the pack allowing turnovers, not giving the backs quick ball and not getting over the gain line. Danny Care's service is too slow and consequently Wilko and Flood are both standing too deep. We need some bigger munters in the pack. I would give Lawes a lengthier chance, as he can have a real impact on a game. If not, then Richard Blaze should be getting a look in before Deacon. We also need someone with more pace at 8 than Nick Easter who is an honest toiler, but not much else. Stuart Barnes has suggested Phil Dowson newly of Northampton. Not such a bad call. As for 7, I would stick with Moody. I have a nasty suspicion that Stefan Armitage is a good GP player who would get exposed in white.

Centres also continue to pose a problem. Tait is playing ok at 13, but Flutey is not up to it at 12. Shontayne Hape is not the answer either. If they pick 2 kiwis in the middle, I am packing up and leaving the country. As Dodge says, a lot of this smacks of poor coaching from the usual suspects. I wonder if Delon should get a look in at centre or if there is any hope that Barkley is going to recapture some form soon.

Whichever way you look at it, the outlook from HQ is bleak.

[Just]

Lievremont made a comment about the England team
'England are loyal to their style of rugby,' he said. 'You cannot say they perform cartwheels of movement but they believe in their qualities. You feel sometimes there is an imbalance between rugby that is restricted but very powerful and players in the backs who do a lot and are all over the pitch for their clubs. They produce a lot more for their clubs than for England.'

I wonder why that might be?