Tew wants S14 to start in March plus some expansion talk

[medrew]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4584689a10295.html

NZ Rugby boss wants March start for Super
By GREG FORD - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 15 June 2008

If sanity and Steve Tew prevail, the start to the professional rugby season will be shunted back to March from next year.

The New Zealand Rugby Union chief executive told the Sunday Star-Times "there was absolutely no value in playing rugby in February".

"Our preference is for people to enjoy their barbecues and other summer activities such as cricket and turn to rugby when they are ready, which isn't February," he said.

But if Tew is to get his way for a new-look Super 14, currently under review, consensus with Australia and South Africa will have to be reached.

Australian Rugby Union boss John O'Neill isn't as enamoured with the idea of a later start, said Tew. A February start across the Tasman allows rugby to get the jump on its rival oval ball codes.

Tew said a series of meetings involving Japan, Argentina and the Pacific Islands will unfold over the next six weeks about expansion.

"And that's when the rubber will hit the road," he said. "We'll find out then what value they can bring and what value their participation will bring to rugby in their regions."

There are considerable obstacles to overcome not least indecision in Japan as to whether they now even want to be involved in Super rugby. Until now it was assumed they would leap at the chance but on a recent fact-finding mission to Japan Tew detected some reticence.

"They're undecided on what future direction they should take," he said. "It would be a big step for them and their thinking seems focused domestically at the moment."

Tew said Japan coach John Kirwan would become a key powerbroker in the future plans and he was eager to expand rugby in his new home.

"But it may be that we take a medium term view with Japan. There is tremendous potential but it may take some time before we can bring them on board."

Progress on the domestic front is far better.

Tew agreed consensus on the direction of the domestic season was developing. The game's powerbrokers are moving towards a window of 20 weeks or more for the Super 14, featuring conferences and an extended playoff format. A semi-professional Air New Zealand Cup will follow hard on its heels. This would permit Super 14 stars who miss All Blacks selection to play in both competitions.

"At the recent media forum we had six different groups come up with roughly the same season format and that seems to be the same around the country," said Tew.

"That's a pretty good sign we're moving towards some kind of consensus. there's a lot of work to be done yet but hopefully we form some concrete plans [over the next two months]."

[roatated]

A 20 week Super 3094 format isn't my preference, but if it's going to take 20 weeks can we at least drop one round of the Tri Nations in the middle for some variety.

[TB]

I can't see how 'conferencing' the S14 is going to improve it.

This irresistable urge to tinker is going to leave us with a bland and uninteresting competition that a lot of people are just going to stop watching until the playoffs.

I wish these idiots would just friggen let things mature for a while instead of changing everything every few years.

Running around the world trying to uncover little pots of cash is fucking embarrasing as well.

[cyclopath]

I can't see how 'conferencing' the S14 is going to improve it.

This irresistable urge to tinker is going to leave us with a bland and uninteresting competition that a lot of people are just going to stop watching until the playoffs.

I wish these idiots would just friggen let things mature for a while instead of changing everything every few years.

Running around the world trying to uncover little pots of cash is fucking embarrasing as well.

I couldn't agree more TB. I think they feel they have to make their mark in whatever tenure they have in the job (which for some is too bloody long) so can't resist the urge to fiddle. Besides, I can't keep up watching all the games as it is!

[Winger]

Tew agreed consensus on the direction of the domestic season was developing. The game's powerbrokers are moving towards a window of 20 weeks or more for the Super 14, featuring conferences and an extended playoff format. A semi-professional Air New Zealand Cup will follow hard on its heels. This would permit Super 14 stars who miss All Blacks selection to play in both competitions.

"At the recent media forum we had six different groups come up with roughly the same season format and that seems to be the same around the country," said Tew.

All the same format      (I assume the NZRU managed each group)

So based on this

20 weeks from March goes through until the end of July. I assume the tri nations would start soon after this so Aug Sept early Oct then the tour to the NH say November

NPC I assume would run at the same time as the tri nations. (likewise the Currie cup so both these competitions without the top players)

So when will the incoming NH tour matched be played

[FredDagg1979]

I can't see how 'conferencing' the S14 is going to improve it.

This irresistable urge to tinker is going to leave us with a bland and uninteresting competition that a lot of people are just going to stop watching until the playoffs.

I wish these idiots would just friggen let things mature for a while instead of changing everything every few years.

Running around the world trying to uncover little pots of cash is fucking embarrasing as well.

There is an absurd amount of travel involved in Super Rugby at present. Splitting it into Atlantic and Pacific pools would reduce that enormously, and with the rapidly rising cost of fuel (ask BMR on the Peak Oil thread), reducing the competitions reliance on flying teams around the world every few weeks would be a smart move.

I don't mind a 20 week Super Rugby starting in March, but to have extended playoffs at the end of it is just fixtures for the sake of fixtures. A Grand Final between the winners of each conference would suffice.

[scruffy-lookin]

I can't see how 'conferencing' the S14 is going to improve it.

This irresistable urge to tinker is going to leave us with a bland and uninteresting competition that a lot of people are just going to stop watching until the playoffs.

I wish these idiots would just friggen let things mature for a while instead of changing everything every few years.

Running around the world trying to uncover little pots of cash is fucking embarrasing as well.

There is an absurd amount of travel involved in Super Rugby at present. Splitting it into Atlantic and Pacific pools would reduce that enormously, and with the rapidly rising cost of fuel (ask BMR on the Peak Oil thread), reducing the competitions reliance on flying teams around the world every few weeks would be a smart move.

I don't mind a 20 week Super Rugby starting in March, but to have extended playoffs at the end of it is just fixtures for the sake of fixtures. A Grand Final between the winners of each conference would suffice.

While I agree that there is too much travel I wouldn't want to see NZ and SA matches reduced to finals. I think a system where each team plays all the others once and also plays a second round against the teams from the same country. These are the matches that - on average - rate highest so they are the ones we should be having more of.

As a concession to the travel issue I would like to see the 4N - ideally including Argentina - played in one country over four weeks with a final in the fourth week. Cuts down on the travel, increases the likelihood of travelling fans and would provide a window for the resumption of mini tours.

[FredDagg1979]

While I agree that there is too much travel I wouldn't want to see NZ and SA matches reduced to finals. I think a system where each team plays all the others once and also plays a second round against the teams from the same country. These are the matches that - on average - rate highest so they are the ones we should be having more of.

As a concession to the travel issue I would like to see the 4N - ideally including Argentina - played in one country over four weeks with a final in the fourth week. Cuts down on the travel, increases the likelihood of travelling fans and would provide a window for the resumption of mini tours.

Agreed wholeheartedly on your second point re: the 4N.

I think the travel issues in Super Rugby (aside from the economic and environmental concerns) are also a factor pushing players offshore where they don't have to do a four week roadtrip to the other side of the world each year. Starting Super Rugby in March would be a significant improvement.

[BartMan]

I like the conference idea too - home and away for the CHiefs v Canty, Blues etc beats the shit out of hosting as mass of mediocre SA sides, as opposed to having a return fixture versus the traditional grudge sides.

length - I don't really care - like the idea of playing tests during the NPC is a good un.  And if you were to play them mid week too (as per Samoa), would give the fringe squad members time to play for their provinces also, and game time for AB's coming back from injury...

[TB]

I like the conference idea too - home and away for the CHiefs v Canty, Blues etc beats the shit out of hosting as mass of mediocre SA sides, as opposed to having a return fixture versus the traditional grudge sides.

The orginal format was supposed to peg the best provincial teams v each other. New Zealand then went the franchise route with a draft, and everyone else had to follow to remain competitive. That was the end of traditional rivalries right there.

If its the domestic games that attract the viewerships, then why not just scrap the thing entirely, stop pretending with 'franchises' and go back to the NPC and the CC and have a top three v top three like the original super 10 back in 1993 or 1994 whenever it was?

I know I'd rather watch the CC than a bunch of whale-killers and convicts slugging ti out, but I also really enjoy watching the SA teams v Convict and Kiwi outfits which is where the real value of S14 rugby lies.

Changing the format is going to chase away a lot of viewers and get the whole thing canned in the long run anyway.

[Winger]

I like the conference idea too - home and away for the CHiefs v Canty, Blues etc beats the shit out of hosting as mass of mediocre SA sides, as opposed to having a return fixture versus the traditional grudge sides.

length - I don't really care - like the idea of playing tests during the NPC is a good un. And if you were to play them mid week too (as per Samoa), would give the fringe squad members time to play for their provinces also, and game time for AB's coming back from injury...

With 20 week super there isn't much of an option

But it isn't going to get the crowds back watching the NPC.

So whereas during the first 10 years of super rugby their was 14 weeks of s12 and 11 weeks of the NPC with VG crowds for both, now the NZRU risk having 20 weeks of super rugby and so many weeks of NPC with poorish crowds for both.

Unsure if financially this is long term a smart move. Even if in the short term it suits NewsCorp.

[Winger]

I like the conference idea too - home and away for the CHiefs v Canty, Blues etc beats the shit out of hosting as mass of mediocre SA sides, as opposed to having a return fixture versus the traditional grudge sides.

The orginal format was supposed to peg the best provincial teams v each other. New Zealand then went the franchise route with a draft, and everyone else had to follow to remain competitive. That was the end of traditional rivalries right there.

Only SA

Aust always played the current teams and will benefit from this 20 weeks format.

For NZ super rugby built on a strong 3 division NPC worked. But NZ have already moved away from this with the terrible ANZC cup (which was probably a planned first step by the NZRU to downgrade provincial rugby)   

[scruffy-lookin]

I like the conference idea too - home and away for the CHiefs v Canty, Blues etc beats the shit out of hosting as mass of mediocre SA sides, as opposed to having a return fixture versus the traditional grudge sides.

The orginal format was supposed to peg the best provincial teams v each other. New Zealand then went the franchise route with a draft, and everyone else had to follow to remain competitive. That was the end of traditional rivalries right there.

Only SA

Aust always played the current teams and will benefit from this 20 weeks format.

For NZ super rugby built on a strong 3 division NPC worked. But NZ have already moved away from this with the terrible ANZC cup (which was probably a planned first step by the NZRU to downgrade provincial rugby)   

While you're right that the current ANZC has too many teams I think it's over simplifying things to say that moving away from the three division NPC with the S14 as an add on is the root of the problems in NZ rugby.

I think the excitement of the first decade of professional rugby allowed people to overlook the short comings of the systems we had in place. Once other factors forced a change it was done by a committee afraid to offend the smaller unions who announced that they would, quite rightly, fight for their survival. The compromise has proved little other than that the NZRFU can't afford a 14 team competition.

The old system only worked when we weren't losing large numbers of players overseas so in order to stem the flow as much as possible I think that the next restructuring has to look at what system is going to hold players in NZ the longest and what do the fans want to watch.

[westie]

Can someone tell me why the NZ super sides can't be the top 5 provinces from the previous years NPC???
I know the 5 NZ super sides were set up to cover all provinces, but how many AB's aren't in the current top 5 provinces? (Serious question)

Of course it would mean having a strong NPC with All Blacks involved, which can only be good.

And it can be done...

Super 14 from mid Feb to end of May.

June internationals in June (couldn't really have June internationals in any month...)

Tri/4 nations from July to mid August. This would be as per a previous post which I posted and have included below .

NPC mid August to end of October - This would be based on the old 3 divisons, 9 teams each. Back to the good old days when the NPC was good.

Autumn tours November.

The AB's team for the 4 nations can be chosen on super 14 form.

The AB's for the November tour can be chosen on NPC form.

*********************************
Previous post - 4 Nations - July to Mid August
*********************************
I know this has been discussed elsewhere, but what I think would make the 3N more exciting is if you include Argentina and have 2 rounds, e.g. 6 games each.

But the thing that would make it better for me is have it in 2 countries each year...
Have all 4 teams in 1 country for the first 3 rounds (so they play each other once), this would be over 3 weekends.

The next weekend a bye while all 4 teams move to another country
Play the next 3 rounds in another country.

The next season alternate it to the other 2 countries that didn't host any games.

e.g...

Round 1-3 in NZ

Round 1
NZ v SAF (Eden Park)
Aus v Arg (Wellington)

Round 2
NZ v Aus (CHCH)
SAF v Arg (Well)

Round 3
NZ v Arg (Well)
Aus v SAF (Eden Park)

Round 4-6 in South Africa...etc...

The obviously downside (which I think is an upside, in a strange way) is that your team only plays 4N rugby at home every second year, but I think this will make it more exciting when it comes around to your turn to host games.

Also this will create interest for the June tours if that’s all the international rugby your getting that year.

The up side is when you host the teams (for example, if it's in NZ) you can also see Aus v SAF / Aus v Arg etc... I think people will pay money to cheer on Arg v Aus, I would.

Another upside is it makes it more appalling to travel to support your team, e.g. NZ is in SAF for 3 weekends (2 weeks) playing 3 different teams in that time. You get more bang for you buck. A bit like an old fashioned tour.

[Scorz]

Can someone tell me why the NZ super sides can't be the top 5 provinces from the previous years NPC???

Yeah, it would always be the same teams, and if say Waikato missed out that's Mils, Sivi, Kahui, Donald, Leonard, Lauaki and Messam etc. without any Super Rugby. They'd be snapped up by Euro teams within moments.

Or you have a draft system, but then the same 5 teams will start keeping players - as they do now.